2125: Don't Look Down

[Scat]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

FOR THE CHILDREN!!! FOR THE CHILDREN!!!

i'm all about protecting children. i'm also about the State staying the fuck out of the bedrooms of willing grown up people.

Fair enough.

[Sparrow]

the negative affects we're discussing here are just /your/ personal disgusts at what two adults are consensually doing behind closed doors. i don't care if they're related or shitting glitter into each other's assholes.

[New here]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

at what two adults are consensually doing

Should it be legal for high school teachers to fuck their 17 and 18 year old students?
(17 is age of consent in some states.)

[Sparrow]

yeah. i don't think anybody should go to jail for that. i mean, should you lose your job? yeah, sure. but criminal charges? not unless they're under the age of consent.

[New here]

Can't get on board. The door is wide open for manipulation and abuse, I'm not going to ignore that just because people love to get sarcastic about protecting "THE CHILDREN THE CHILDREN" Yes I DO give a shit that when a young teen gets fucked it wasn't because an opportunistic scumbag, trusted adult (parent OR teacher), groomed them and messed with their head.

I'm such a pearl clutcher, when I guess I should be roping them around my teen daughters neck while I choke fuck her and we shit sparkles into each others anuses.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by New here

when a young teen gets fucked it wasn't because an opportunistic scumbag, trusted adult (parent OR teacher), groomed them and messed with their head.

Originally Posted by New here

I guess I should be roping them around my teen daughters neck while I choke fuck her and we shit sparkles into each others anuses.

what are you talking about?

that's not what i'm advocating. grooming is and should be illegal. i'm talking about adults in a consensual encounter.

i'm not sure how many times i can say that exploitation, coercion, rape, and trafficking are all bad and rightfully illegal things.

[Sparrow]

does nobody else have any friends who fucked teachers in high school?

[iheartnihilism]

I know someone who fucked a teacher in high school and wound up marrying him.

[Scumhook]

What if the bonking in question is between a 25 year old male and his 43 year old mother?

Applying the now internationally recognised Flerchin Scale, is this moar icky than bumsex, but less icky than a girl banging her Dad?

Personally, I think it's moar icky, but that's probably because I enjoy being on the receiving end of daddy issues. and also probably because i secretly want to fuck my mum

[DaveNJ]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

for the purpose of this conversation, we are going to assume the daughter is a fully grown, mentally competent individual.

if we're going to talk discrepancy, there's a world of difference between consensual incest and being assaulted while physically incapacitated. there's no lack of physical competency on the woman's part here.

a grown woman can absolutely consent to have sex with her dad. that's a literal thing she can do. i do not, however, think either party should face criminal charges. taking punitive actions against people here just seems like it doesn't fix any problems. it's relatively rare, non-violent, and doesn't involve minors. it doesn't make the general public safer to have these people locked away on our dime. it's gross and probably a big life mistake for all parties involved, but i think we can all just stay out of it unless she is being raped, coerced, exploited, or trafficked.

Yours is a pretty thin definition of consent. Pretty much every legal theory of consent recognizes that it's not as simple as how you're putting it due to, among other things, inherent power imbalances. That's the same theory that allows us to prosecute statutory rape, even if a 17 year-old thinks at the core of their soul that they are consenting. It's what makes it illegal for a prison guard to have sex with a prisoner. It's what makes it illegal for teachers to sleep with high school students.

Consent isn't just someone saying "let's do this", because that statement is informed by many different things. Put succinctly, the kind of "consensual" incest you're describing is not that due to the power imbalance at the core of the relationship. Gross? Yeah. Mistake? Sure. But those are secondary to the fact that this type of sex isn't consensual by the standards of our society. Physical competency is only one piece of consent, not the entirety of it.

As a society, we have a vested interest in preventing non-consensual sex, and prisons play a big role in that. That this type of incest is rare and non-violent doesn't change the fact that it's harmful to our social order. Societies make things illegal to reduce rates of occurrence; when people considering this type of non-consensual sex know they can go to jail for it, it makes it less likely. It also makes it less likely that parents will groom children (including foster/adopted children) for roles as sexual partners. The harm from decriminalizing this is increased occurrence of non-consensual sex, which is a social harm. I'd prefer to live in a society with less of that harm, and I'm happy to pay the additional pennies in taxes to keep the folks who commit these crimes imprisoned.

Flat-out, your definition of consent is incorrect and out of alignment with our society's definition. That's where you're running into opposition here. If you want to make the case for a different standard of consent, you've got to start there.