2125: Don't Look Down

[Sparrow]

i've only got enough gumption today to stand my ground and scream 'MURICA into the wind.

[DaveNJ]

That's not a defense of your standard of consent, though I'm sure you know that. I've gotten into it before with Myq regarding teachers, and I'll do the same here: consent isn't as simple as someone saying "yes." It's an important part of a larger puzzle, but you misidentify it at your peril.

[flerchin]

Care to back that up sparky? Seems like most states don't criminalize teacher student sex, and 17 is the age of consent in most states as well.

Furthermore, your tone smacks of jagoff. Work on that.

[Scumhook]

Originally Posted by DaveNJ

consent isn't as simple as someone saying "yes."

I agree.

Sometimes they say "maybe" until you get them drunk enough.

Also, sometimes they say "no" before the roofie kicks in.

You are clearly a wise and nuanced individual.

[DaveNJ]

Originally Posted by flerchin

Care to back that up sparky? Seems like most states don't criminalize teacher student sex, and 17 is the age of consent in most states as well.

Furthermore, your tone smacks of jagoff. Work on that.

Nope. Keep tone policing, though.

[DaveNJ]

Originally Posted by Lord of the Cock Rings

Good point. EVEN if everybody involved in the sex act is of legal age and gives an enthusiastic "YES" we should probably still call in a rape councelor before the fact to do some in-depth interviews to all involved so that we can tease out any possible trauma that could be clouding their judgement.

Society already recognizes a number of cases in which an enthusiastic yes is in no way enough to meet the standard of consent. Heck, your use of "legal age" is itself a caveat, as though the formulation of a legal age of consent isn't in place specifically to address power imbalances.

If you want to make the case for why incest doesn't represent an imbalance on par with age, just make the fucking case already. None of this nonsense about weed and prisons. Tell me why we, as a society, shouldn't consider this a power imbalance that requires addressing. We do it with age, students, prisoners, those under the care of others, and more, and it's all of a piece. You're the one advocating for a change, so don't beat around the bush. Just tell me why a parent having sex with an adult child of theirs doesn't represent a power imbalance that makes consent impossible.

[DaveNJ]

Originally Posted by seamus

The power dynamics of the parent-child relationship is perhaps the only honest argument you can make against it. Even if they are consenting adults, I would suppose it is useful to criminalize it as so a parent doesn't groom a child. Maybe you could try to argue that at a certain age it is no longer the case, but that ain't 18 years old. Most children are still partially dependented on their parents - even if it isn't financial - for years.

Children can be on their parent's health insurance through age 25, and parents can be the lifetime caregivers of children with certain disabilities, even those developed after age 25 (see the sad case of Amanda Bynes). The truth is that in our society, there's no age where the tie is completely severed. Adult incest is not okay, and our standards of consent ought not be relaxed. Those who say otherwise are truly lazy thinkers who would rather apply a heuristic from a completely different debate than think this issue through.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by seamus

I would suppose it is useful to criminalize it as so a parent doesn't groom a child.

this is already illegal.

[DaveNJ]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

this is already illegal.

It's also difficult to address absent adult incest being illegal, as one of the only ways to discover the grooming is once it proceeds to behavior. Behavior that, under your America, would be decriminalized.

Saying that fire would still be illegal ignores the impact of decriminalizing smoke.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by DaveNJ

It's also difficult to address absent adult incest being illegal, as one of the only ways to discover the grooming is once it proceeds to behavior. Behavior that, under your America, would be decriminalized.

Saying that fire would still be illegal ignores the impact of decriminalizing smoke.

why would we decriminalize child exploitation?

if this were a case of sexually assaulting a minor, the state has an obligation to step in and protect that minor. but two adults engaging in taboo sexual behavior in and of itself is not a criminal act. the state shouldn't step in and protect that adult unless that adult is being raped, exploited, coerced, or trafficked.