2161: She's Always a Woman

[invader]

If I was a female athlete, and busted my ass throughout my entire life to be the best at my chosen sport and was at the top of my game. Then a trans athlete came out of nowhere and blew me out of the water... I'd be fucking pissed. Also whats all this jive about trans athlete on the same physical level as their genetic counter part? Then why do all trans-female athletes end up dominating whatever sport they enter? Yes equality for all but lets hold on to our commonsense.
What about a trans-league?

[Bucho]

Originally Posted by marykae

A trans woman is a woman. You wouldn't punish a cis woman for being biologically stronger.

One of my friends summed this up beautifully.

On Transgender Athletes - Ninjas & Bunny Rabbits

That's a good read but it misses the mark.

" ... how often do you hear outcry about a male athlete having an unusually high testosterone level? ..."

In mixed martial arts? LITERALLY all the time. This is a sport in which testosterone levels are checked before and after every fight and also at random "surprise" intervals throughout the couple of months prior to the fight. And when the numbers come back goofy? You better believe there's an outcry across the MMA world. Reputations can be ruined by exactly that metric. Even when an athlete is officially cleared of PED usage, MMA fandom is so skeptical of authority the questioning continues. Even athletes who had "therapeutic use exemptions" and were open about their legal use of TRT are looked at sideways. T levels are a HUGE deal in the fight game.

Which is why this "Fallon Fox thing" is a discussion which weakens when comparisons tennis or ultramarathon are made. Nobody's taking head trauma receiving Roger Federer's serves or eating Dean Karnazes's dust.

[marykae]

Originally Posted by Bucho

That's a good read but it misses the mark.

" ... how often do you hear outcry about a male athlete having an unusually high testosterone level? ..."

In mixed martial arts? LITERALLY all the time. This is a sport in which testosterone levels are checked before and after every fight and also at random "surprise" intervals throughout the couple of months prior to the fight. And when the numbers come back goofy? You better believe there's an outcry across the MMA world. Reputations can be ruined by exactly that metric. Even when an athlete is officially cleared of PED usage, MMA fandom is so skeptical of authority the questioning continues. Even athletes who had "therapeutic use exemptions" and were open about their legal use of TRT are looked at sideways. T levels are a HUGE deal in the fight game.

Which is why this "Fallon Fox thing" is a discussion which weakens when comparisons tennis or ultramarathon are made. Nobody's taking head trauma receiving Roger Federer's serves or eating Dean Karnazes's dust.

I think she meant "naturally high testosterone levels." But I'm just guessing.

[marykae]

Originally Posted by invader

If I was a female athlete, and busted my ass throughout my entire life to be the best at my chosen sport and was at the top of my game. Then a trans athlete came out of nowhere and blew me out of the water... I'd be fucking pissed. Also whats all this jive about trans athlete on the same physical level as their genetic counter part? Then why do all trans-female athletes end up dominating whatever sport they enter? Yes equality for all but lets hold on to our commonsense.
What about a trans-league?

Except I am a female athlete, and I don't feel this way. Neither do my friends who compete at a much higher level than I do.

As for trans only leagues? That is alienating as fuck. We don't need more of that in today's world.

[Keith]

You're on a team as opposed to being a solo athlete, so that's different than what he's saying.

Unless an entire team was transgender women.

[marykae]

Originally Posted by Keith

You're on a team as opposed to being a solo athlete, so that's different than what he's saying.

Unless an entire team was transgender women.

True. But tbh I didn't even realize I was responding to a male or I would have responded differently. A male brained person can't say how they would feel if they were a female. I mean, they can try, but I can't take them seriously.

Similarly, I can't say how I would feel if I didn't have four other girls on the track with me. But I'd like to think I'd feel the way I do now, as long as the athlete was competing in the correct weight class.

[viciouskitten]

Agree with DaveNJ and Keith in general on this one. Chemda is right in that a scientific basis should be used as judgment for these kinds of issues (people who are qualified to make a scientific judgement should be the ones to do so). But speaking just as a regular person I would say no, a trans woman who went through puberty as a man should not be allowed to compete against women. On a general level being physically male gives greater basic strength, denser bones and greater muscele mass. And maybe hormones do mitigate these advantages to some degree. But how do you judge to what degree is fair? Anyone who saw Anderson Silva literally snap his leg bone in half while kicking the shin of his opponent would agree that bone density is important in regards to MMA fighting and that someone with greater bone density is at a definite advantage to someone with less. Weight training will only get you so far. It will never make my bones as dense as a man's. no matter how much I go to the gym. I understand its a tricky issue in that transgendered people have the right to be treated equally to all the other people of their gender. But having xy chromosomes confer a definite advantage in all manner of physical attributes and that can not be ignored.

[FingerLakes]

I googled "Do men have denser bones than woman" So I could make an educated poll choice and here are all the first options

"Bones in different races"
"Do Africans have denser bones..."
"Racial differences in bone strength"


jesus. Why are those the most popular/active/paid for websites? Fucking goofy humans

Also I voted its not fair

[DaveNJ]

Originally Posted by marykae

True. But tbh I didn't even realize I was responding to a male or I would have responded differently. A male brained person can't say how they would feel if they were a female. I mean, they can try, but I can't take them seriously.

Similarly, I can't say how I would feel if I didn't have four other girls on the track with me. But I'd like to think I'd feel the way I do now, as long as the athlete was competing in the correct weight class.

Which is fine to say now, but think of the Fallon Fox example of the fighter happening to win EVERY time.

What if there was a ceiling to your competition where you were always competing for second (or third or fourth) place? Some people might continue to compete, but others wouldn't. Competition thrives when something is, you know, competitive. When it's not? The shine tends to fade.

[marykae]

Originally Posted by DaveNJ

Which is fine to say now, but think of the Fallon Fox example of the fighter happening to win EVERY time.

What if there was a ceiling to your competition where you were always competing for second (or third or fourth) place? Some people might continue to compete, but others wouldn't. Competition thrives when something is, you know, competitive. When it's not? The shine tends to fade.

Work harder. Sounds like she's raising the bar. That's good for a sport. According to Wikipedia she hasn't even had that many professional fights, and she lost one. Sounds like she can be taken down. Are we speculating about what *might* happen in the future?