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Michael's Servant 07-03-2019 07:00 PM

3105: Feelings Words w/ Andrea Allan
 
Andrea re-finds love; edibles in spin class; Keith receives talk therapy; sugar babies and daddiesí rules

Guest:
Andrea Allan
http://static-2.keithandthegirl.net/...ea-100x100.jpg


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Keith 07-03-2019 07:43 PM

When I heard back Mondayís show I heard I said that my dad is annoying.

Thatís the feelings word. Iím annoyed.

Not angry. Not sad. Annoyed.

AstoriaGirl 07-03-2019 08:24 PM

I would sum up Keith's emotional experience regarding his father as "wanting to be over it but continually shocked that the bottom to his misbehavior is lower than what you previously thought before". It seems like you felt betrayed by father Malley contacting your ex and trying to undermine your relationship with Kyle.

Before my dad died I had basically done 5 years of prep work of "my father is going to die early from his alcoholism" and so when he did die I was like "yeah I basically already grieved all of this, I'm not surprised and I was sad for 5 years so there's not much left to feel now". But man some of my coworkers were assholes about my lack of feeling and it's partially why I left.

rdelfin 07-03-2019 11:20 PM

°Hola Andrťa, hola Chemda, hola Keith!

I don't know... was I perceiving a little bit of downplaying from K. when both A. & C. were earnestly trying to provide a safe space for him to at least acknowledge how much "I'm not sad / angry" he is not?

Now "annoyed" has been thrown out there as an answer to fill in the blank... hmm... sounds like not quite what I heard between the lines. (I could be wrong)

YOU WELCOME K. .... Kidding!! geesh

Bucho 07-04-2019 04:31 AM

I feel Keith a lot more on this one. I get why Chemda and Andrea were frustrated and angling to see him as being defensive but I felt like his Spooky shrugs were legit. This shit isn't new to him.

Keith had been processing his dad's uselessness (including in writing, which is pretty dang therapeutic) for at least a couple of decades before he even met Chemda, let alone started the show. The crime is far in the past for him. Chemda was still at war with herself regarding her parents until fairly recently.

Trauma is caused by shocking loss. The loss of trust that comes with betrayal is an example. Chemda felt betrayed by her parents and by her ex-husband because she had trusted them. Keith never felt betrayed by his dad because he had never trusted his dad. His dad's tricks failed from essentially the very beginning, so there was never* any trust in his dad to be lost.

(In addition to the massive difference in recency there's also the thing where Chemda's brothers didn't experience what she experienced, and continues to experience, while Keith shares the experience of his father with at least some of his siblings.)


* At least as far as Keith's memory stretches back - see Sparrow's thing about a crying baby who learned that crying is pointless.

Keith 07-04-2019 09:24 AM

Thanks to a listener, Amanda L., I found another word.

Contempt.

Contempt: the feeling that a person or a thing is beneath consideration, worthless, or deserving scorn.

Archimedes_Screw 07-04-2019 10:13 AM

Iíve thoroughly enjoyed the Keith, the girl, and the girl episodes this week.

Get Andreaís album! So fucking funny.

Steph 07-04-2019 12:13 PM

Post traumatic growth
 
Recently I learned people respond to trauma in different ways. Some people actually experience post-traumatic growth instead of post-traumatic stress disorder.

This podcast gave me this information:
https://unfuckyourbrain.com/trauma/

It might be that Keith is not experiencing his emotions but it could also be that he is not traumatized. Everyone is different.

panicBoy 07-04-2019 01:07 PM

Keith, do you feel youíre getting something out of this? Comeuppance? Is this helping you move forward intellectually/emotionally? Like itís you being in control of him for once and that feels like a way to move on, even if only incrementally?

Iíve been hearing these awful stories for 14 years. Trust me when I say that Iím 💯 behind it. Itís nice to hear FM getting some very deserved fuckiní-with. Anyone who is squicked-out by the diabolical tactics and clear speed traps of NotCatís emails hasnít been listening to what a bad guy FM really is. Keithís been telling us. And itís thrilling to hear the bully get thrown around.

Enunciated Piffle 07-04-2019 03:22 PM

Strange Rorschach
 
ďWhat are your feelings towards this complete stranger?Ē

I donít know. They seem mentally ill.

ďWhat if I told you theyíre a blood relative?Ē

I still feel nothing. I dunno. I guess theyíre a weirdo AND a total stranger..?

ď...itís just sad you canít access your emotions...Ē

Ok.

Jo_Culprit 07-04-2019 11:18 PM

Why wasn't there any consideration for Keith to to just feel a degree of apathy or resignation about his father in the argument on this episode? From Keith's stories about his Dad over the years it always just felt like over Keith's childhood he ended up just seeing his Father as less than him. Keith has always come across as a pragmatic person as well, so why despair about his Father being a weirdo when he has a modicum of gratefulness growing up with what he did have compared to others less fortunate.

Chemda and Andrea are very locked into the mental models they've been exposed to in their own therapy sessions and seem to be unaware the psychology as a science is far more broad than those simplified models used by American therapists. The american therapy model is often criticized in Clinical Psychology outside of the US for being a system that perpetuates the need for therapy indefinitely, bleeding money more from the patient.

It was such a strange 'intervention' or 'helping' to listen to, Chemda and Andrea just sounded like they were projecting onto Keith the whole time. When Keith's reactions fell outside of they model that trivialized and dismissed what he was saying -.- This honestly felt very cult like to me, essentially saying 'You don't even know you're wrong, we have all the answers'.

- There's no room for any level apathy or resignation because that meant he was a sociopath? Wtf? This was a ridiculous thing to insinuate.
- 'There can't be anger without sadness as well' this is projection.

Liquid 07-05-2019 07:01 AM

Drug Cocktails
 
When Chemda mentioned the combined affect of different drugs, it reminded me that anytime i drink and do mushrooms or LSD my hallucinations are much more fluid in nature. Especially when i need to pee!

Just wanted to share. That's all. Also I'm on Keith's side. Apathy should be an acceptable feeling.

panicBoy 07-05-2019 08:43 AM

I find nothing abnormal about how Keith is processing this latest episode. I feel like this has been a recurring argument for many years now. Keith should be angrier, Keith should be sadder, Keith should, Keith should.

Keithís fine. His DAD, however, is FUCKED. But Keith is okay.

You know, not GREAT, but okay. I mean, that was his dad after all. For all this shit he had to grow up with, couldnít he be A LOT FUCKINí WORSE?

invader 07-05-2019 08:48 AM

I'm shocked Chemda didn't see any visuals on mushrooms. Both times I took mushrooms the visuals were the first thing that hit me. Both times I took them on a completely empty stomach and washed them down with a glass of orange juice, both things I was told would heighten the experience. First thing that happened was everything looked "wet" like water was flowing over it. Patterns began to swim, then colors got intensely bright and pulse. The next thing I knew my consciousness felt like it was in my girlfriend's bod and I was experiencing my apartment from her perspective. But not just visually also mentally and emotionally.

I have no idea what dose I took. Once I learned it was physically impossible to die from an overdose I just packed them in my mouth.

Abby 07-05-2019 01:44 PM

Hey Keith, I think you need to look at a feelings wheel. It shows all the emotions and where they land on Angry/Sad/Happy

It helped me identify emotions I didn't even realize I was feeling. My issues are different but I've learned to suppress my emotions and its basically where all my problems come from.

The feelings wheel is magical!

littlp 07-05-2019 03:20 PM

I think Keith has been dealing with this for so long that he has processed it to the point where he is just annoyed. He was able to use his book to vent as well as the show. Thatís the way he processes it. I donít get the impression that he is pushing anything deep down. He is surprisingly well-adjusted all things considered.


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BrotherWayne 07-05-2019 04:25 PM

Andrea, a couple of things I've learned about sleep:

- benadryl or any antihistamine is not something you should take daily for long periods for sleep, it is correlated with dementia

- avoiding blue light is super important; try using some blue blocker shades and reading a book for an hour before you need to go to bed

- don't get in bed until you're REALLY tired

- use low amounts of melatonin, start with 1mg

- cool and dark room is helpful

- exercise is important

- THC is inconsistent with sleep assistance, some people experience a bounce-back in the middle of the night and sleep poorly because of it

I've been working with a sleep medicine doctor for years now.

littlp 07-05-2019 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherWayne (Post 876463)
Andrea, a couple of things I've learned about sleep:



- benadryl or any antihistamine is not something you should take daily for long periods for sleep, it is correlated with dementia



.



It also can cause sleep disturbances such as sleep walking, talking etc. and do not do ambien because it causes the same issues. Trazadone usually helps. ~healthcare social worker who works closely with an NP


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Jameira 07-05-2019 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steph (Post 876445)
Recently I learned people respond to trauma in different ways. Some people actually experience post-traumatic growth instead of post-traumatic stress disorder.

This podcast gave me this information:
https://unfuckyourbrain.com/trauma/

It might be that Keith is not experiencing his emotions but it could also be that he is not traumatized. Everyone is different.

Thanks a lot for more podcast debt, Steph!!! 😂🤣 I found some cool topics and the episodes are bite-size so they wonít really interfere with my other shows

MartinCrow 07-05-2019 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith (Post 876427)
When I heard back Mondayís show I heard I said that my dad is annoying.

Thatís the feelings word. Iím annoyed.

Not angry. Not sad. Annoyed.

But how does it FEEL to be annoyed, Keith? How does it FEEEEEL!!?

NotARegularMom 07-05-2019 07:29 PM

I wanna talk about the weed.
 
Keithís feelings....heís got them under control. I want to talk about the weed. Lol

Andrea, if you read the forums I want you to know this. The sativa & indica can get lost when the weed is being made into an edible. Some people say it makes a difference most say it doesnít. Here is an article explaining it further. http://https://www.leafly.com/news/c...you-differentl

Smoking or vaping it is one of the most sure ways to get the sativa or indica effects. If you arenít opposed to smoking Iíd say find a strain in the purple family and take 1 small hit before bed. That would be equivalent to about 5-10mgs of edible if itís average weed. I donít know how easy you can get weed in NYC or how the medical marijuana laws are there but if you can pick strains get purples.

Just to share a little extra about me and why Iím all into the weed knowledge recently. Itís been legalized for medical in Oklahoma. Which means itís pay to play all you have to do is say I have this issue and a doctor signs a form for you and you give the doc $75-125 and pay the state $105 for a 2 year card. Itís the only decent thing Oklahoma has at this point.

We have a 12 year old son that is severely autistic and non verbal. Weíve been through 3 different docs and at least 15 heavy duty meds. The side effects were terrible. He gained 70lbs in one year, beat me up several times, was a drooling zombie etc etc. When the aggression happened the docs told me to double the dose. Why so I can get my ass kicked again? No, thanks. Weíve been doing a combo of CBD/THC drops and itís been life changing. Heís happy, he is able to focus better and follow simple instructions and is trying new foods.

Anyway, I had to laugh at Andreaís dose because my 12 year old take about 10mg twice a day.

Ok well Iíve over shared but Iím home alone and high. Thanks if you read this.

WalknBullseye 07-06-2019 04:44 AM

I'm with Keith on this. C&A, would you be ok with Keith's responses if he had gone thru 10 years of therapy? How are Keith's responses different from someone who HAS gone thru therapy. To me, the way Keith has/is dealing with his father seem pretty consistent to a person who HAS figured out how to deal with those emotions. I don't recall anywhere where Keith said he hasnt had those emotions. Only that his father doesn't hold any power over those emotions NOW. I get the feeling from C&A that they are viewing Keith's reactions thru glasses tinted by their own experiences.
Just my $.02.
Love the show!

Sparrow 07-06-2019 08:52 AM

you guys are right. heís tooootally ok. handling this ďannoyanceĒ with several months of public catfishing is an appropriate and proportional response to what youíre saying is nothing. cool cool.

bullshit. Keith is so invested in the gotcha moment. his dad gives so few fucks to know Keith he canít even recognize Keithís voice. this is a cry for Daddyís attention or he would have left it alone. LOOK AT ME DADDY! CAN YOU SEE ME NOW?!?!

no, Keithís totally fine.

FingerLakes 07-06-2019 01:03 PM

This was a good ep and a good poll

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdelfin (Post 876429)

I don't know... was I perceiving a little bit of downplaying from K. when both A. & C. were earnestly trying to provide a safe space for him to at least acknowledge how much "I'm not sad / angry" he is not?

Partially. But a lot of it was also codepents telling another person to feel the emotion they thought he should be feeling versus whatever he thinks he's feeling - I'm saying that as a codependent.

"Isn't that sad? THAT'S sad! That's the most sad!" Keith has been pretty clear on what he hasn't felt through this. His Dad wasn't Andrea's dad or Hennesey or Chemda's dad. He was never a person Keith could rely on so his trust wasn't betrayed cuz he never trusted him to take care of him. Father Malley can just continue become a worse human by lying and hurting Keith but he was always some fucking jag off that grew up in the same house as Keith and happened to control the money and rules. He's not a parent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abby (Post 876459)
Hey Keith, I think you need to look at a feelings wheel. It shows all the emotions and where they land on Angry/Sad/Happy

Let's take a look at that, why don't we:
https://i.imgur.com/q6hcgsH.jpg

Annoyed lives with Angry, and detestable (a synonym for contempt) lives with Disgust. No sad overlap here.

He sure as fuck isn't the perfect, he still thinks everyone's tricking him and the world is black and white but i think he's felt all he's gonna feel on his dad at this point. Maybe after the dick pick things will change

da_ticklah 07-07-2019 10:11 PM

the word is apathy Keith is apathetic towards his dad

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apathy

Definition of apathy
lack of feeling or emotion

panicBoy 07-07-2019 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da_ticklah (Post 876493)
the word is apathy Keith is apathetic towards his dad

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apathy

Definition of apathy
lack of feeling or emotion

Itís more than apathy. There is effort being made. Emails are being crafted. Thatís not apathetic. He definitely feels SOMETHING.

SpareBen 07-08-2019 01:30 PM

He's feeling "what a shame," which translates to schadenfreude for his future self.

digitalhobo 07-08-2019 01:35 PM

I think you are all missing the point. I can smell your pussy!


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shoebootie 07-08-2019 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panicBoy (Post 876494)
Itís more than apathy. There is effort being made. Emails are being crafted. Thatís not apathetic. He definitely feels SOMETHING.

Keith wanted to quit the emails. Other people encouraged this to continue... otherwise he would have given up by now.

shoebootie 07-08-2019 02:23 PM

Hoooooo boy there is a lot to unpack here. I HAVE A LOT TO SAY. Let's review, item by item.

1. "you know when you go to another dimension?" YES. Jesus christ, I literally traveled out of my body, above the ceiling, through a celestial terrace and was in outerspace, solving so many world problems. Everything was so clear to me. Until I came back to my body and couldn't remember the solution to world peace. Shit.

2. I need a good edibles hookup or to get it legalized in this shit state already. When you guys know exactly how much to dose yourself with, that would be so much better than the mystery vegan edibles that are sending me into the solar system.

3. Sleeping - My sleeping was all jacked up from pills, anxiety and bullshit, and then I had to get on more pills to go to sleep. I finally said enough is enough... stopped the pills that were giving me too much energy/anxiety, compensated with a heavy workout later in the day. And now I am sleeping normally again - working out hard to tire me out. Days I work out = good sleep. Lazy Days = poor sleep.

4. Keith is Fine - I think Keith addressed his feelings as they happened, he's processed the sadness, anger, denial and bargaining over his relationship with his dad long ago. This new email shit with him was fun/funny at first, and is being prolonged for ratings. I'm not gonna lie, I'm intrigued, but Keith stated weeks ago he was done.

5. Compartmentalization - Keith does that. I do that so often and well it is easy to spot one like myself. When it comes to fucked up family shit, you just gotta put that in a lil box and go "well that ain't right" and move on. You can process that feeling and then be done with it. Keith clearly processes his emotions differently than Andrea or Chemda expects, I don't think it makes him a sociopath. For someone with a podcast and a public voice, he's obviously more guarded and calculating about what he shares of himself. We got The Studio out of him from his divorce, but that he wasn't crying on mic doesn't make him less affected by the end of his marriage. And that's ok. I don't want people seeing all my emotions all the time, and if I had a podcast I'd have to be judicious on what and how I share about topics as well.

Basically, Keith, please just cry on mic for us all to know you're not a serial killer and that you have Real Human Emotions.

ThumbnailTwo 07-08-2019 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AstoriaGirl (Post 876428)
Before my dad died I had basically done 5 years of prep work of "my father is going to die early from his alcoholism" and so when he did die I was like "yeah I basically already grieved all of this, I'm not surprised and I was sad for 5 years so there's not much left to feel now". But man some of my coworkers were assholes about my lack of feeling and it's partially why I left.

This rings very true to me. My dad was sick for a few months before he died, wasting away in front of our eyes, and I felt constant worry and sadness. For two to three months, deep down, I knew he would die (he was a heavy smoker, had been losing weight over the years, looked like shit and his latest bloodwork was concerning), and the night my mom rang my doorbell and said "I think your father is dead" I replied "Of course he is".

We had to sit, a couple of weeks afterwards, and talk about why we weren't as sad as we were "supposed" to be. Your experience mirrors mine very well, since I feel I grieved his upcoming death during those last few months.

Five years later, all I feel is meh, life went on, and I'd be seriously pissed if someone was forcing me to find feelings where I have only meh.

(I still love all of you, please podcast mom and podcast stepmom don't hate me because podcast dad is right this time!)

Bucho 07-08-2019 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparrow (Post 876477)
you guys are right. heís tooootally ok. handling this ďannoyanceĒ with several months of public catfishing is an appropriate and proportional response to what youíre saying is nothing. cool cool.

bullshit. Keith is so invested in the gotcha moment. his dad gives so few fucks to know Keith he canít even recognize Keithís voice. this is a cry for Daddyís attention or he would have left it alone. LOOK AT ME DADDY! CAN YOU SEE ME NOW?!?!

no, Keithís totally fine.

You sure about that Sparez? What about how he's tried to ditch it several times over the last several weeks out of boredom only to be talked back into it by everyone else?

Bucho 07-09-2019 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoebootie (Post 876500)
Keith wanted to quit the emails. Other people encouraged this to continue... otherwise he would have given up by now.

I just realized I stole your point without crediting you. I don't know how I missed it yesterday, but I am sorry for what I am to be sorry for.

Enunciated Piffle 07-09-2019 02:16 PM

Chemda has gone to Al Anon.

Andrea sounds like she goes to AA. Maybe NA too?

Were they mad at Keith because he wonít do a group or because they think he thinks heís better than them?

I love it when Chemda and Andrea gang up on Keith but it seemed like they were doing so with no real talking points except for, ďThis is how I, (and or others) would respond. You are wrong for not responding - as such.

campy 07-15-2019 02:06 PM

I am a little surprised by Chemda in this episode...she's hard on our Keith. Luckily he has a thick skin and can deflect well.

The "feeling" I got from Keith was that to assign a word and a feeling to his father is to give his father too much credit. Keith's dad doesn't deserve Keith's feeling...end of.
Keith deserves whatever feelings he wants, if that is to feel nothing then that's what it is. Frankly, I wish more humans were capable of shutting it off and shutting it down. Why waste any time assigning "feelings" for a man who's only feelings he had for his children was to revel in their misery and torment.

O'Ryan 07-30-2019 01:12 PM

I imagine this has been covered before at some point, but could anyone tell me which episodes properly cover the emails? I have a road trip with a buddy coming up next week and I think the best way to introduce him to KATG is through this bizarre freak show.

So far for sure, there's:
3071: Not Your Father's Sexual Position
3092: Papa, Can You Hear Me
3097: Superstar Of David
3101: Jingle Hell

Is there one I'm missing?

John Petri 02-11-2020 12:54 AM

fuuuuuck. this show was so hard to listen to

at some point this show stopped being about keith's feelings about his father and started being about andrea being upset about keith's feelings (or lack there of) about his father.

let's pretend that chemda and andrea are right and keith is very upset/sad/suffering from PTSD. is that how you talk to someone that is feeling like that?

amnesiac 02-13-2020 08:58 PM

I love this episode!

Andrea and Chemda were playing the role Keith normally plays: telling people that their feelings (or lack thereof) are wrong. I really relate to Keith in this episode; just cause he experienced a traumatic childhood doesn't mean he has to be traumatized.

Normally it's Keith telling people that the way they feel is wrong. For example, Tracy Carnazzo said many times that she wanted to go to the burger place with her boyfriend. She liked hanging with him and she liked getting the burger and eating it later at home. Keith thinks that it's rude to eat a burger in front of Tracy when she can't but Tracy doesn't think it's rude.

I think it is rude not to take people at face value when they say their feelings.

amnesiac 02-13-2020 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O'Ryan (Post 877212)
I imagine this has been covered before at some point, but could anyone tell me which episodes properly cover the emails? I have a road trip with a buddy coming up next week and I think the best way to introduce him to KATG is through this bizarre freak show.

So far for sure, there's:
3071: Not Your Father's Sexual Position
3092: Papa, Can You Hear Me
3097: Superstar Of David
3101: Jingle Hell

Is there one I'm missing?

Try Keithandthegirl.com/dad

Most of the emails are collected there...I intro'd my brother to the show using these shows over a long road trip and it was awesome.


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