I now pronounce you wife and wife.

[balls]

hey spooky, im gonna play devil's advocate here. let me state first of all, i think that the amendment idea is stupid. the constitution is not a place for religion, that is what church and the thousands of religious documents are for.

that said, this CANNOT be a state-based issue because people move. if half of the union has one law, and half of the union another you have a group of people that have uneven rights depending on what state they are in. the last time we had that situation we had a civil war. black people were free in some states and slaves in others. however, as soon as one crossed the border it was a huge debate over what laws applied. should the gay marriage be retroactively recognized by the new state because it was done legally in a state that allows it? or do married gay people forfeit rights by merely passing through the highway system of a state?

what about federally mandated, but state supported systems such as medicare and medicaid? does a state banning gay marriage provide healthcare benefits equally to gay couples married in a different state?

regardless of what you feel on this issue, it is complicated enough that we can not afford to have drastically different laws in different states. one possible solution is that states recognize these rights for "guests" of the state, ie tourists, travelers who come from a state where it is legal.

personally i like the idea of keeping the legal union separate from the religious marriage. make the rules stringent, require HIV tests and mandatory pre-marriage counseling (useful for straight couples as well, remember 60% of straight marriages end in divorce in 5 or fewer years) and then the wedding part is separate.

make the rules governing the union at the federal level so that they are consistent, but make it a law, not an amendment.

[da_ticklah]

while I think Churches should retain the right to be selective in who they marry (try to get an Atheist and Catholic married in a Catholic Church) anybody should be able to go to Vegas or a courthouse and get married

[the big lebowski]

Originally Posted by balls

personally i like the idea of keeping the legal union separate from the religious marriage.

agreed. up untill...

here:

make the rules stringent, require HIV tests and mandatory pre-marriage counseling ...

i'm for less government here. i don't think the government should be in our bedrooms forcing us to go to counseling.

[balls]

Originally Posted by the big lebowski

i don't think the government should be in our bedrooms forcing us to go to counseling.

i understand your point but both policies are better for the state and the people. divorces are extremely common and they cost society money.

after a divorce a person's work productivity goes down, it adds a burden to our already overburdened judicial system, and makes a mess of many kid's lives.

i am not talking about something where the government decides who does and does not get married. i am talking about an hour session with a counselor who truly informs people what they are getting into. though you may understand marriage (or think you do) most people don't, that is why they get divorced later when they actually do see what it is about.

i mean hell, people go to fertility clinics thinking that they are infertile and they find out later they were putting it in the belly button. ignorance is a big issue in this country.

overall the idea saves money, decreases the divorce rate and does not limit what people can or can not do. i dont see the problem. this is a role the government is for. this is why it is the law to wear a seatbelt. saves money and protects people.

[lickmyballssuckmy]

Blitzgal has a scanner. And titties. So it would be all about the backlighting..

Originally Posted by ozdog

I vote more titties on here

[HighMike]

Originally Posted by arcatacat

I vote that we quit it with the fucking religious and political threads already. I mean I like the education and it's mildly interesting, but what happened to titties and beer? What happened to sex, drugs and rock and roll? What happened to stories about getting drunk, puking and going right back for more?

Just sayin'.

You didn't have to click on the thread.

[HighMike]

Originally Posted by balls

i understand your point but both policies are better for the state and the people. divorces are extremely common and they cost society money.

after a divorce a person's work productivity goes down, it adds a burden to our already overburdened judicial system, and makes a mess of many kid's lives.

, that is why they get divorced later when they actually do see what it is about.

ignorance is a big issue in this country.

Why the fuck does everyone think the divorce rate went up because people don't know what "marriage" is. Is it so hard to believe that after being with someone THEY CHANGE or situations change that warrant a divorce?! I think the only reason why we see a increase in divorces is because people realize they don't have to tie shackles to each other because of some "morality" or religious bullshit.


Also that 3rd party bullshit doenst make sense. What is an outsider going to tell two people who think they're in love and meant for each other that would convince them to take marriage any more seriously?

By the way....why should we take marriage seriously????? Who cares if people get divorces.....thats more money for the courts and lawyers...

[Hotwire]

Its not just you zany Americans having this issue raised:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...359778513.html

Our Federal Government is looking to overturn a "state" law which permits civil unions between homosexuals.

[balls]

Originally Posted by HighMike

Is it so hard to believe that after being with someone THEY CHANGE or situations change that warrant a divorce...

What is an outsider going to tell two people who think they're in love and meant for each other that would convince them to take marriage any more seriously?

By the way....why should we take marriage seriously????? Who cares if people get divorces.....thats more money for the courts and lawyers...

can you read? do you just skim posts without really paying attention to them?

first of all i realize things change, but most divorces happen within the first few years of marriage. i am sure some of them are due to major changes in peoples lives, but the vast majority of the time people dont realize what they are getting into.

the point of the marriage counselor is not to convince people they love each other, it is a brief opportunity to let people know what they are getting into.

i will tell you again why we should take divorces more seriously -- you stated part of it, but got it wrong. divorces COST the government a lot of money. the cost of the court time for a divorce is far more than what is collected in court fees. when people go through a divorce their productivity goes way down which costs the company money. the average net worth of people bottoms out right before a divorce leading to a high rate of bankruptcy after divorce.

guess what the common thread is there...MONEY, that is TAX MONEY. divorce costs YOU money in the way of taxes collected to pay the bills. i am assuming you have a
job, which might be a leap based on your screen name, but still. do you enjoy having the government take money from you to pay for the costs incurred when other people divorce? especially if the whole thing might have been avoided if a counselor had allowed them to have a little bit if introspection....

finally, you clearly have never known anyone who has gone through a divorce. people do not get divorced and remarried freely because they feel "freed from moral obligations." divorce is extremely difficult psychologically on all parties involved, case in point suicide rates increase dramatically during and after divorce. tell me do "liberated people" kill themselves?

anyone who goes through a divorce and isn't affected by it either has antisocial personality disorder or was in a seriously abusive relationship (in which case an immediate divorce is absolutely necessary)

[cogy]

even if everything you say is true, balls, [and im not so sure], i think keeping the govt out of my biz and not giving them any in possible is more important than reducing the divorce rate and associated costs. we can do other things to lower the cost, like requiring a basic prenup that stipulates exactly who gets what after a divorce.

what can a govt appointed therapist tell them their friends and family, not to mention their conscience, hasnt been telling them already? plus, it doesnt matter. no one is listening to any advice given to them before their marriage. maybe if you required a waiting period like they do for sex changes... but thats another extreme step.

and, as an aside, antisocial pd refers to law breaking. it has a lot in common with psychopathy, where a person would not care about hurting another, but isnt the same.

anyhow, kudos on the name. i salute you, balls.