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View Poll Results: Do you still support Israel's blockade of Gaza?
Yes 31 43.66%
No 40 56.34%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-01-2010, 02:54 PM   #41 (permalink)
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If I was delivering aid, I'd be pretty fucking careful to not break the law, so it could be delivered safely.
YES! ^^^^^^THIS!

Damn you for putting it so prettily into a single sentence.
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:18 PM   #42 (permalink)
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If I was delivering aid, I'd be pretty fucking careful to not break the law, so it could be delivered safely.
Unfortunately they were trying to "make a statement". If they really wanted the aid to get in they could have gone to Egypt or Ashdod. They instead decided that somehow attacking commandos with knifes and metal rods would be the good way to go about things.

Also, many of these "peace activists" on the "aid" vessel have direct ties to terror groups. Raed Salah spent years in jail for funneling money to Hamas and Hezbollah. This is not black and white. Positions on the blockade aside, it's tough to see why this conflict needed to happen.
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:50 PM   #43 (permalink)
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More questionable "aid" found on the ship:

IDF: Global Jihad on flotilla

Night-vision goggles and big stacks of cash? Bulletproof vests and gas masks? Wonder who that's for.
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:54 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Night-vision goggles and big stacks of cash? Bulletproof vests and gas masks? Wonder who that's for.
Come on, man. Obviously it was for the starving children to trade for food.

Get with it!
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:56 PM   #45 (permalink)
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For fuck's sake, am I going to have to look up what "flotilla" means?

Can I just read some Scott Pilgrim instead please?
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Old 06-01-2010, 04:20 PM   #46 (permalink)
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There may be some long term consequences for Israel and the entire Middle East.

Turkey is the closest thing Israel has to an ally in the Muslim world. It is a prosperous, westernized (they want to be admitted to the EU), secular Muslim democracy, with strict separation of church and state, thanks to the man on the left. Lately, it's been struggling with a small but rambunctious Islamist movement that wants to blur the line between Islam and the government, if not impose outright religious rule.

So, Israel pisses off a country that can help it, and the Turkish Islamists get a boost at home. Not good. The Israelis could have used a little more finesse.


Last edited by Pintman; 06-01-2010 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:05 PM   #47 (permalink)
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There may be some long term consequences for Israel and the entire Middle East.

Turkey is the closest thing Israel has to an ally in the Muslim world. It is a prosperous, westernized (they want to be admitted to the EU), secular Muslim democracy, with strict separation of church and state, thanks to the man on the left. Lately, it's been struggling with a small but rambunctious Islamist movement that wants to blur the line between Islam and the government, if not impose outright religious rule.

So, Israel pisses off a country that can help it, and the Turkish Islamists get a boost at home. Not good. The Israelis could have used a little more finesse.

Certainly, but the alternative was a security situation that Israel appeared to feel was unbearable. Plenty of blame here falls on Turkey for not reigning in their Islamists and letting them go on a convoy to a territory that's being blockaded.

Also, Turkey claimed to have searched these ships. Clearly not well enough.
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:33 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Certainly, but the alternative was a security situation that Israel appeared to feel was unbearable. Plenty of blame here falls on Turkey for not reigning in their Islamists and letting them go on a convoy to a territory that's being blockaded.

Also, Turkey claimed to have searched these ships. Clearly not well enough.
True, although I'm not sure these were Islamists on the boat.

I spent a small amount of time, not nearly enough, in Turkey, including an entire election campaign, and got a real feel for how most Turks treasure their secular democracy. Way different in many respects, but similar to how we Americans feel about our system. I have a real soft spot for the place and the people.
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:53 PM   #49 (permalink)
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True, although I'm not sure these were Islamists on the boat.

I spent a small amount of time, not nearly enough, in Turkey, including an entire election campaign, and got a real feel for how most Turks treasure their secular democracy. Way different in many respects, but similar to how we Americans feel about our system. I have a real soft spot for the place and the people.
The IHH is an Islamist group with ties to Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, and Global Jihad.

Erdogan's gonna throw a shit fit because he loves pandering to his base, but the truth is that this action was provocative from Turkey. If Turkey didn't want a crisis in relations they should have prevented this ship from leaving its shores, or at least have made sure that the ship wasn't carrying light weaponry and tactical aid for Hamas.

Turkey's movement away from secularism is its own problem, and hardly Israel's fault.
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:02 PM   #50 (permalink)
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whuh.....?

I've been to protests... this it just that thing protestors always do that pisses me off no end. Start some shit then look all aggrieved when whoever is trying to keep order tries to keep you in order cus, well, shit, you were only protesting, and your cause is right, so you could never have done any wrong.

Regardless of how you feel about Israel/Palestine, when a bunch of guys with guns on boats with bigger guns say "Do not come this way, we are blockading this area, you are not allowed through unless we say so", you do not then continue to try to go forwards through that area with no expectation of consequences. Fucking idiot much?

Are we seriously still afflicted with some kind of middle ages pilgrim mentality where we plough into danger grinning retardedly and repeating to ourselves "We are on the side of right and nobody can stop us, God shall turn aside the slings and arrows of all others for we are just so gosh darned RIGHTEOUS"

And now theres another fucking media circus because some idiots decided to play chicken against men with guns. Men with guns who are trained that people coming at you might be suicide bombers.

Yes its fucking regrettable from both sides, Israel gets to look an asshole in the eyes of the world yet again and some humanitarian groups get to have a mockery made of their cause, but as soon as some idiot decided THAT was the situation to provoke into some kind of spectacle to make a point, it was inevitable that it would end with violence.

No I am not some kind of vehement Israel supporter and nor am I a great fan of Palestine. Or rather I am absolutely opposed to Hamas, but a people are not their government. This was a sad and stupid event for all involved.
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