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View Poll Results: Do you still support Israel's blockade of Gaza?
Yes 31 43.66%
No 40 56.34%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-01-2010, 08:26 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Thumbs down This situation

Nothing pisses me off worse than these stupid mutha fuckers the Palestinians and the Israel's fighting not over oil or gold or the need for the land itself, but because it is the holy land they are fighting over holy dirt how fuckin retarded can these people be.

If i had my way we would put the jews the muslims and the christians in the middle east away from the rest of us sane people, and let them duke it out over there where at least innocent people would not be getting caught in the crossfire.

It really is a shame how crazy these people are. Then again we are allies with these dispshits so what does that say about our country. We all know that when shit really goes down somehow we are gonna get dragged into this mess and have go bell these asshats out, and put at risk our own military men and woman to settle a religious turf war it just does not seem right to me.
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Old 06-01-2010, 08:33 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by banger316 View Post
Nothing pisses me off worse than these stupid mutha fuckers the Palestinians and the Israel's fighting not over oil or gold or the need for the land itself, but because it is the holy land they are fighting over holy dirt how fuckin retarded can these people be.

If i had my way we would put the jews the muslims and the christians in the middle east away from the rest of us sane people, and let them duke it out over there where at least innocent people would not be getting caught in the crossfire.

It really is a shame how crazy these people are. Then again we are allies with these dispshits so what does that say about our country. We all know that when shit really goes down somehow we are gonna get dragged into this mess and have go bell these asshats out, and put at risk our own military men and woman to settle a religious turf war it just does not seem right to me.
You sound balanced.
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Old 06-01-2010, 08:43 PM   #53 (permalink)
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You sound balanced.
No just observant and realistic about the world that we are leaving behind for future generations to deal with. Besides if you are not angry it means you are not paying attention you can't blame me for being passionate about events that have ramifications far beyond just a fight over some holy dirt.
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:04 PM   #54 (permalink)
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No just observant and realistic about the world that we are leaving behind for future generations to deal with. Besides if you are not angry it means you are not paying attention you can't blame me for being passionate about events that have ramifications far beyond just a fight over some holy dirt.
Ethnic nationalism is not entirely religious. Again, the issue at hand is that a UN-recognized state has been and continues to be attacked by neighboring groups that don't recognize its existence, partially on religious grounds. And this all goes back to a core land dispute: do Jews have the right to return to their historic homeland and establish a viable nation-state there? The UN agreed to the affirmative answer in 1948, some people disagreed and fought over it, and to this point there's still no consensus.

But what, really, are the ramifications of a lack of peace between Israel and the Palestinians? Peace won't make Iran less belligerent. It won't spell an end to radical Islam. Gays will still get executed in Saudi Arabia. Pakistan will still have nukes. Iraq will still be torn in ethno-religious conflict. Lebanon, too. Egypt will remain a repressed state. So will Syria. And Jordan. Al Qaeda will still be around. Ditto for Hezbollah.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the most publicized problem in the region, but it's far from the only one, and ending it will not bring about peace with a capital P in the Middle East. It will end one conflict among many.

As for innocents, they will always be caught in the crossfire. That's how crossfire works.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:40 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Ethnic nationalism is not entirely religious. Again, the issue at hand is that a UN-recognized state has been and continues to be attacked by neighboring groups that don't recognize its existence, partially on religious grounds.
You do realize that Israel is still outside the boundaries established and agreed upon by the U.N. in 1948 and again in 1967, don't you? Look up U.N. Resolution 242. Israel is, without a doubt, the primary aggressor in the region. It has repeatedly been evident that the Palestinian groups are far more willing to work out a peace agreement and coexist. Israel insists the victim role upon itself while dominating and destroying a people.

I've been to war with the Arabs in Iraq and have a deep-seated hate of all haji bastards, so it pains me to side with the Palestinians. But as a student of History, I can't deny that the majority of blame rests with Israel.
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:40 PM   #56 (permalink)
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You do realize that Israel is still outside the boundaries established and agreed upon by the U.N. in 1948 and again in 1967, don't you? Look up U.N. Resolution 242. Israel is, without a doubt, the primary aggressor in the region. It has repeatedly been evident that the Palestinian groups are far more willing to work out a peace agreement and coexist. Israel insists the victim role upon itself while dominating and destroying a people.

I've been to war with the Arabs in Iraq and have a deep-seated hate of all haji bastards, so it pains me to side with the Palestinians. But as a student of History, I can't deny that the majority of blame rests with Israel.
You do realize that the '48 resolution (181) was actually a non-binding recommendation of borders? and you do realize that the '67 resolution didn't actually even define borders, but just actions? you do realize that arab acts of violence almost immediately after these agreements nullified them? making them moot? and you do realize that the 1948 agreement was offically denounced by Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and several other arab nations? you do realize that the UN representatives for those nations actually took the stage that day and each individually politely threatened violence against any group attempting to enforce that agreement? You do realize these things, don't you?

And now you come here & envoke that agreement as if arab nations would be just fine with it??? As if they've been coming to the table for peace? How dare you act like you know what you're talking about.

And not to speak for DaveNJ, who's be doing fine speaking for himself, but I believe he wasn't even talking about geography.
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:20 PM   #57 (permalink)
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You do realize that Israel is still outside the boundaries established and agreed upon by the U.N. in 1948 and again in 1967, don't you? Look up U.N. Resolution 242. Israel is, without a doubt, the primary aggressor in the region. It has repeatedly been evident that the Palestinian groups are far more willing to work out a peace agreement and coexist. Israel insists the victim role upon itself while dominating and destroying a people.

I've been to war with the Arabs in Iraq and have a deep-seated hate of all haji bastards, so it pains me to side with the Palestinians. But as a student of History, I can't deny that the majority of blame rests with Israel.
Ridiculous. This statement is neither supported by history nor by the present makeup of the Palestinian government.

Hamas doesn't recognize the '67 borders. Their goal is the entirety of historic Palestine, the opposite of peace or coexistence.

Not to mention Camp David in 2000, when Clinton said to Arafat "You have made me a failure."

Plus, this thing isn't an issue of geography, it's an issue of war and naval rights. But just when you make a succinct argument, someone decides to change the question.
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Old 06-05-2010, 12:36 AM   #58 (permalink)
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The Avalon Project : UN General Assembly Resolution 181 <--UN 181. The whole thing is an interesting read, but mainly Part 2. Boundaries. You know, the part where it states the boundaries of the Jewish and Arab states.

Security Council Resolutions 1967 <--UN 242. Note where it says Israel must withdraw from the territories gained in the 1967 war; hence returning to their 1948 borders.

In 1947-1948, beginning before Israel was officially recognized, Israeli forces entered into a systematic eradication of Palestinians in both the Jewish and Arab states (as defined by UN 181 Part 2 Boundaries). Where do you think all those Palestinian refugees came from? Germany?

Of course the other Arab states disagreed with the establishment of Israel. Who wouldn't disagree with a people similar to your own being conquered without conquest? Surrendering their homeland without fighting a war?

Look, I'm not saying the Arabs haven't killed Jews and that they're constantly pleading for peace. No one can deny that there are Arab terrorists and aggressive Arab states (I believe I already mentioned I hate the haji bastards). But I reassert that Israel is the primary aggressor. Through continued housing construction in the Palestinian territories; prevention of Palestinian employment, self-governance, education, etc; and using a far-superior military force of tanks and such to launch attacks (yes, usually attacks, not counterattacks) on civilians the Israelis constantly remind us that they have no desire for peace or a joint-state agreement.

Dave, there is no Palestinian government. The PLO is recognized by the UN as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, but it is not a government. "Palestine" is not a state, it is two occupied territories.

Read "Walled: Israeli Society at an Impasse" by Sylvain Cypel. It's an amazing insight into the history and current state of the region. Note that the author is Jewish, yet makes many of the same points that I do.

Of course, judging by your interpretation of my first post, neither of you possess any ability to read or analyze. How dare you (and if I ever meet you, Saint Marcos, know I will beat the shit out of you for having the gall to say "how dare you" to me), how dare you skew my post to fit your needs to be able to disagree with it. Do some fucking research and try again, kids.
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Old 06-05-2010, 07:16 AM   #59 (permalink)
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You guys know this is ridiculous, right? This whole deal is Italy's fault.
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Old 06-05-2010, 07:38 AM   #60 (permalink)
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You guys know this is ridiculous, right? This whole deal is Italy's fault.
Finally, a voice of reason.
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