Joe Lieberman is a fuckwit.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Dean from Australia

You make a good point regarding administrative overheads. We've been arguing for a long time about the best way to remove the several layers of beuracracy in the system that is nothing but dead wood. Also, serious consideration should be given to regulating medical products companies and big pharmaceuticals who suck billions of dollars for something that they nevet actually did any R and D on (of course this will never happen since big pharma rank among the biggest political donors).

If you pay taxes you should be entitled to health care.

I agree that if you choose to live in a system where health care is part of government, and you pay taxes that you are paying for health care. However, one thing that people seem to forget is that we have states that already do this sort of thing.

I could choose, for instance, to live in Massachusetts and I would pay higher taxes but would have access to very affordable health insurance. There are comics from Boston who have mentioned on the show before how they have health insurance from this source. They don't even have to live in Mass full time, they just have to keep it as their home state and pay state taxes.

I choose, instead, to live in New Hampshire which has no state income tax and no sales tax. There is also no expectation that the state will provide medical coverage for anybody. There are plenty of free clinics and charitable organization that provide very low cost care, sometimes in exchange for volunteer services ... but the state is not involved.

I'm glad we don't have a universal coverage system yet and I hope we never get it. One of the rapidly disappearing beauties about the US is that the states are different, you can pick and choose where you want to live based on what is important to you. The more we lump powers and programs into a Federal system the more we lose that feature.

Originally Posted by dzagama

If you pay taxes, you should be entitled to healthy food, too.

But Big Agra doesn't want that, they want you slurping down corn syrup to fatten their fat cat wallets!

Perhaps Big Agra's in bed with Big Pharma! Lordy! Can you imagine that!?

They *give* us heart disease, then they 'cure' us!!!

/kills self.

No, you should be able to choose healthy food without the government legislating small farms out of existance in favor of Big Agra. You should be able to do that whether or not you pay taxes because the right to grow food and choose what to put in your face isn't 'given' by the government. You were born with the right to eat and feed yourself, as long as in doing so you don't trample over anybody else's rights.

The military/industrial complex isn't the only complex. Ever read the Farm Bill or looked at where the money goes to fund the Drug War?

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by Dean from Australia

Jeez, America really is fucked up, isn't it.

Thank god for katg

America is fucked up, but the lack of government healthcare and a love of fast food sure as shit aren't reasons why.

What's more, we still have it less fucked up than you, Australia.

[dzagama]

Just to be clear, my lefty rant was just a bit 'o sarcasm.

And, of course, Mr. Galt is correct in every possible way.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by dzagama

Just to be clear, my lefty rant was just a bit 'o sarcasm.

And, of course, Mr. Galt is correct in every possible way.

I'm gonna buy some grocery insurance as soon as somebody offers it.

[Dean from Australia]

Originally Posted by dzagama

Not really, but some people would like you to think so. Look at the UK, for gawd's sake.

Elaborate please.

Look - here's an example of something that has nothing to do with the American healthcare system, but it gives you an idea...

A few weeks ago, I took my 3 year old son to the Doctor because of a persistent lump in his neck (familial history of Lymphoma in the back of our mind). Doctor's fee - bulk billed to Medicare therefore nothing to pay. Ultrasound ordered, appointment made for an hour after the Doctor's appointment. Test conducted, bulk billed to Medicare - nothing to pay. Blood work up at the Children's Hospital, bulk billed to Medicare - nothing to pay. At the end of the day we got an all clear thank god.

I paid 20k in taxes last fin. year

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Dean from Australia

Elaborate please.

Look - here's an example of something that has nothing to do with the American healthcare system, but it gives you an idea...

A few weeks ago, I took my 3 year old son to the Doctor because of a persistent lump in his neck (familial history of Lymphoma in the back of our mind). Doctor's fee - bulk billed to Medicare therefore nothing to pay. Ultrasound ordered, appointment made for an hour after the Doctor's appointment. Test conducted, bulk billed to Medicare - nothing to pay. Blood work up at the Children's Hospital, bulk billed to Medicare - nothing to pay. At the end of the day we got an all clear thank god.

I paid 20k in taxes last fin. year

It does give me an idea, but probably not the idea you wanted me to receive.

Please back up to the "This American Life" Episode ( This American Life ) which was mentioned earlier in this thread.

Check back in when you've done your homework.

[Ant-LOX]

Originally Posted by Articthunder666

sometimes things get......whatever.

I agree.

I like how no one on here knows what they are talking about, and it's cool to see the more clever posters sculpt the minds of the weaker posters into believing their ideas.

Then the thread gets boring when everyone agrees with one guy because he has more info/stats on something.

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by Ant-LOX

I agree.

I like how no one on here knows what they are talking about, and it's cool to see the more clever posters sculpt the minds of the weaker posters into believing their ideas.

Then the thread gets boring when everyone agrees with one guy because he has more info/stats on something.

No no no, don't try to be some vague dickhead. Either commence with the logical beatdown, or do not say anyone is wrong.

Provide your case so that everyone can see how incredibly right you are, and we can see if you are just alluding to wispy delusions or not. Otherwise, you are wrong.

[Ant-LOX]

I freely admit that I don't know anything. I know a few tricks with creating art but that's as far as my knowledge goes.

Message boards are filled with experts, who instead of making changes, just argue with other message boarders who are also experts and also do nothing.

carry on.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Ant-LOX

I freely admit that I don't know anything. I know a few tricks with creating art but that's as far as my knowledge goes.

Message boards are filled with experts, who instead of making changes, just argue with other message boarders who are also experts and also do nothing.

carry on.

Some are also trying to make changes, but don't necessarily want to bring all those details into a given forum.