BBC is now in America... check out the new ad campain...

[Mikey]

[marina]

Neat. Where are those billboards?

[jwdd27]

New York I believe.
So the majority still go for "Liberators"???

You need the BBC.

[NobleRot]

What a bullshit campaign. Thanks BBC for contributing to the dumbing down of our culture. Like we weren't doing enough to encourage stupidity ourselves.

[spooky]

Originally Posted by jwdd27

New York I believe.
So the majority still go for "Liberators"???

You need the BBC.

its all opinion stuff, its not a fact/fiction thing.

of course we (coalition forces) are liberators, its stupid, industrial strength, not to see that. however, was that the reason we went in, or was it just a tertiary result of liberating the flow of oil from a dictator gone mad? is that liberation a bad thing because of the religious civil war that came as a result? should we leave them to fight it out or occupy until a stable government is established? where do you draw the line? at what point is the price of freedom for all too high?

if its black and white to you, youre definitely an idiot, or possibly ignorant. BBC is also a biased source of news, just as bad as CNN and Fox, ive listened to them for years.

[marina]

I don't see how we can be liberators, except in a semantic sence. Yeah, we liberated them from Sadam, but we unleashed radical islamist clerics on thier asses. We also liberated them of thier oil, and thier electricity and thier clean water, schools hospitals and red cross buildings. Of course we're occupiers. But you're right, it can't be black and white, nothing ever is.

I was really against getting into the war in the first place, but I have to admit that just running away and leaving the mess we've made is also shitty. However, we're the one's that fucked it up so bad, I don't trust US forces to do any good at any time. Especially with Bush and his crew wondering around telling everyone that we've been doing good for years.

[jwdd27]

Originally Posted by spooky

is that liberation a bad thing because of the religious civil war that came as a result? should we leave them to fight it out or occupy until a stable government is established? where do you draw the line? at what point is the price of freedom for all too high?

if its black and white to you, youre definitely an idiot, or possibly ignorant. BBC is also a biased source of news, just as bad as CNN and Fox, ive listened to them for years.

Almost 80% of "insurgent" attacks are directed towards occupying coalition forces*. There's not that big a civil war going on.
"We" are causing conflict, not maintaining the peace.

*Source: The Pentagon

[spooky]

Originally Posted by jwdd27

Almost 80% of "insurgent" attacks are directed towards occupying coalition forces*. There's not that big a civil war going on.
"We" are causing conflict, not maintaining the peace.

*Source: The Pentagon

last i read, 80% of iraqi casualties were not from or related to US or allied forces. most deaths were within 30 miles of baghdad, and the number of actual deaths was all over the map, but possibly 60,000.

lemme dig up some sources...

A 2006 study by the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health estimated that more than 601,000 Iraqis have died in this violence and that fewer than one third of these deaths came at the hands of Coalition forces

http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnew...iraq_2006.html

[Rye]

Originally Posted by spooky

its all opinion stuff, its not a fact/fiction thing.

of course we (coalition forces) are liberators, its stupid, industrial strength, not to see that. however, was that the reason we went in, or was it just a tertiary result of liberating the flow of oil from a dictator gone mad? is that liberation a bad thing because of the religious civil war that came as a result? should we leave them to fight it out or occupy until a stable government is established? where do you draw the line? at what point is the price of freedom for all too high?

if its black and white to you, youre definitely an idiot, or possibly ignorant. BBC is also a biased source of news, just as bad as CNN and Fox, ive listened to them for years.

First your fucked to put the BBC in with CNN and FOX, US news is a fuckin circus compared to ANY NEWS. BBC news is excellant, as is their docus and specials.

Your right thats its not black and white but what is is the fact that your not liberating a country for the sake of freedoom or bettering the population or protecting your own country. Your down there protecting YOUR interests, stabalising the middle east to ensure a flow of the blood of your economy. Just now its more of a mess. Like I have said many times the US are nothing more than economic imperialists hiding behind the term liberators.

If the administration was honest about their intentions I would have more respect for them instead of all the lies and BS they feed the world.

All you need to do is take a look at the history of the US and their previous ties to the leaders in the middle east. ohh sorry their puppet leaders.

The US stood by and did nothing when all the kurds where gassed in the 80's, they actually didnt even stand up in the UN vote but hey those assholes the french did so did canada hmmm.

How about the the millions the US funded Saddam with after the gassing? But hey their theyre to liberate the people that they helped opress for the last 3 decades by a leader they put in power.

[spooky]

Originally Posted by Rye

First your fucked to put the BBC in with CNN and FOX, US news is a fuckin circus compared to ANY NEWS. BBC news is excellant, as is their docus and specials.

Your right thats its not black and white but what is is the fact that your not liberating a country for the sake of freedoom or bettering the population or protecting your own country. Your down there protecting YOUR interests, stabalising the middle east to ensure a flow of the blood of your economy. Just now its more of a mess. Like I have said many times the US are nothing more than economic imperialists hiding behind the term liberators.

If the administration was honest about their intentions I would have more respect for them instead of all the lies and BS they feed the world.

All you need to do is take a look at the history of the US and their previous ties to the leaders in the middle east. ohh sorry their puppet leaders.

The US stood by and did nothing when all the kurds where gassed in the 80's, they actually didnt even stand up in the UN vote but hey those assholes the french did so did canada hmmm.

How about the the millions the US funded Saddam with after the gassing? But hey their theyre to liberate the people that they helped opress for the last 3 decades by a leader they put in power.

lord, fix your use of theyre there and thier.

that said, bush fucked up the handling of the war. you can argue that america helped put saddam into power, and i would more or less agree. but thats when he wasnt a crazy person destabalizing or being a threat to the global economy by way of his controlling roughly 20% of the oil in the world.

theres lots and lots of genocide going on all over the world in countries with little to offer the world, and nobody does a thing to stop it. america, as the world police, maybe should, but...we look after our own asses first, the economy second, and your ass if youre an ally third, and everyone else...only if we feel like shedding american blood over it. thats how it is. thats how it will be for the forseeable future. yeah, america is bad for letting so much shit slide, and america is bad for looking after american interests first.

wheres the outcry for this shit happening all over the rest of the world, and where are all the noble troops of where ever besides america standing up for oppression when theres no economic advantage? cases here and there happen, like canada for instance, in rwanda, but fuck, shit happens, we cant be everywhere all the time, and blood gets spilled constantly while the entire world watches and does nothing because its not in their interest.