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View Poll Results: Should the app be removed from the market place?
This app is awesome, even in beta, keep it there. 15 32.61%
Its not perfect, pull it out... screw people who can only get it there! 31 67.39%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-15-2011, 07:09 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech007 View Post
I agree!

I too did not take any extra steps to contact Joel when streaming died in 1.2. I presumed he was busy/incommunicado. And the forums was 'the' place to leave feedback.

Joel, thanks again for the app. I use it daily to stream live. And unfortunately for Keith, the feedback even works.

It was disheartening to see the app release get unstable just as Keith did some mentions of it on the show. Your subsequent delay in fixing was made just a bit more painful due to all the new attention.

I look forward to the app getting some more loving and getting all tricked out like the iPhone version.

Once again I say thanks for all the time you've spent making this available for FREE. Donate or spread the word!! Install on yer friends phones!
Thanks Tech! Sorry about the fumble! I am planning on making some updates, like clickable links in the twitter feed, soon. If you go to my github page you can create issues for things you want to see in the app. I know I've added some that you had requested to that list, like a widget.
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:33 PM   #112 (permalink)
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The whole story

So after listening to Tuesday's show today. I'm probably done. I have enough self respect to put up with so much. But frist I'm going to post the entirety of what I've sent KATG so you can decide for yourself. I'm posting it completely because Keith reads things the way he want's them to sound often not the way they are actually written.

On May 17: I sent the following email to KATG:

Quote:
Android App updated and in the Android Market

May 17
Hi Guys,

My name is Joel,
Married,
Straight,
I give 01011010 shits about this email.

Just wanted to let you know that the android app I've been working on is now in the market. It's great for listening to the live shows and seeing the random shit Keith shares on twitter.

I'm hoping to be able to update and add a lot of cool features soon.

So please let the KATG android users know .

There is a thread in the forums where they can complain if they have issues.

If you could ask them not to be too harsh in the market, but rather save the harshness for the forums, that'd be great!

Thanks,

Joel Brauer

Only you can decide to be happy! The rest of life is in the details...

There are no 'shoulds', only choices and consequences.
You can listen to the show just after that was sent, either the 17th or 18th, and hear them calling me depressed and making all kinds of assumptions, as well as asking for clarification on what the App does (while saying it does more than it does). So on May 19 I sent the following email just before the show:
Quote:
May 19
Hi guys,

Thanks for letting people know about the app.

Currently it contains only the following:
Live Show listening
Feedback submission
Events Tab - shows upcoming katg events info
Twitter Tab - shows Keith, Chemda, and keithandthegirl twitters. If you'd like me to make it show more, let me know.

Coming in the future:
back show information and download.
widget for the homescreen
support for older devices

Regarding my normal signature. I'm not a depressed person, but I have dealt with too many of them who refuse to take responsibility for it. The signature was originally written when my ex was trying to blame all her whoa's on me, instead of realizing that I couldn't change her outlook on life, that was up to her. My problem was that I thought, when I was younger, that I could make her happy. So it was a revelation to me that it really wasn't my responsibility to make someone else happy. I truly believe if someone want's to be unhappy, whether consciously or not, there's nothing I can do to change their mind. So my hope is that my signature will get people to realize their responsibility for themselves and their own emotional well being. I really didn't think keith would read the signature, but I should have realized Keith is a monkey who reads whatever he prints off.

So thanks for letting people know. I'm glad that more people are now able listen live on the go.

Love you guys!

elastoplastic

Wisdom removed...
Did they mention that I thanked them? Did they clarify the app? Did they even mention this email at all? No. But I expect too much...

So then I went on to work a lot on the app over the next few days. Releasing a couple of updates before I started my move to Colorado a couple days later. Unfortunately for everyone, I introduced a bug that broke the live feed portion of the show for which I am very sorry.

During the interim while I was moving and trying to get settled it looks like several people complained both here, which I sadly wasn't getting notifications about, and to KATG, which Keith simply told them to "Buy an iPhone." Never once till the day KATG shat all over my app last week did KATG try to contact me to see why I would leave a broken app up.

So finally on June 8 Keith posted another iPhone related solution/jab before finally sending me the PM that he's so proud of repeating (while leaving everything else negative that he's done out).

You can see that I read his PM and saw his message here and posted this.

I read later that day that Keith shat all over the app never once actually trying to contact me, or checking to see that I did pull down the app as soon as I knew it was broken, and only republished it later that day when I had fixed the bug.

So, on June 8 Before listening to the show and feeling severely under-appreciated for my many days of coding and hearing that Keith had shat all over it. I wrote the following email:
Quote:
Dear KATG,

I'm 32, Male, Straight, Married, and I give one severely under-appreciated shit about this email.

This is a copy of what I PM'd you, because I want to be sure you get it.

Before the PM message from you, I had no idea that the streaming of the show portion wasn't working. The app is working minus that feature, granted its a big feature.

I have just finally started settling down from a long move from California to Colorado. And for some reason wasn't receiving notifications about people posting in the forums, which I saw today they have been doing since I last released the update (that was broken). If you really have a problem, you can contact me directly. You have my email address, can PM me here in the forums(which given the fact that I didn't get notifications from the Android App forum makes me a little nervous about that option. I'll even give you my phone number so you can text me or call if you have concerns.

But lets be honest, I'm not making any money off this app. You are not paying for the development. Therefore you don't get paid support.

I'm a little upset right now at how you simply go off on your show without once reaching out to me for comment, or to even let me know that things are wrong. I actually haven't listened to it yet (not sure I want to). I have spent countless hours working on this app. Part of that is because I am new to android development, and have had to bring myself up to speed on how it works. The other part is I have a full time job, and a wife, and a life outside of KATG.

But over the 5 years that I've been listening, I've appreciated KATG. I've purchased both your books. A t-shirt. And had an automated donation set up for over a year. I figured when I gave something back, like a great deal of free development so that not just iPhone users could listen to your show, you might show a little appreciation, or give me a little courtesy in letting me know that things are messed up on an app that is CLEARLY marked as beta!

At this point, I'm going to fix the app tonight, and we'll see if I have the desire, anymore, to continue helping you guys out. Right now I can't even bring myself to listen to the show anymore, so we'll see.

Thanks for reading,

elastoplastic
aka: joel
So I did end up listening, and found his comments, while offensive, to be not as bad as I was expecting. Which I posted to that effect here.

Anyways I updated the app. Fixed the bug. and rereleased the app to the market. And then I sent the following email on June 9:
Quote:
Hi guys,

Just a quick update:

I fixed the broken part of the app last night, and its been updated in the Market. I have the app in the market primarily so that people on certain carriers that can only install apps from the market can get it. It was requested in the forum.

I can remove it, if that's really what you want. There's only about 500 users of the app currently, so I don't think there are many people who are ignorant of KATG using it.

I also added a poll to the forum to see what others think about removing it from the market.

There are ways of testing the app without owning an android phone. If you want I can help you get that working, so you can test it. I wish I had more time to work on it and perfect it. But I do what I can.

I don't believe the show not streaming properly reflects badly on you, however. It just means that people couldn't hear the show. There is very clear description in the market that the app is Beta and may not work. And that they should contact me if it doesn't. There is only 1 1 star rating and about 60 5 star. The app is rated very high thanks to the loyal KATG fans.

Thanks,

Elastoplastic
aka: Joel
On that day's show keith really went off on how much of an asshole I am. As you can see I never once called him anything, other than saying I was disappointed and felt under-appreciated.

It was at this point that I wrote my last substantive email to KATG:
Quote:
I've changed the name in the market so its clearly an "UNOFFICIAL KATG beta" app.

The app works, but if you respond by email and request that I remove it. I will.

And Keith, calling me an asshole (which I'm not denying), is like the pot calling the kettle black. But I wouldn't expect any less from you. You're out of touch asshole rants are part of the KATG fun.

I don't know why I let myself get worked up about anything you say. As you put it, all I have to do is look at your comment history(verbal or otherwise) and consider the source.

I've enjoyed giving back. And from many of your fans I've gotten a great deal of appreciation. But I am not trying to defame the name of KATG. You're pretty good at doing that yourself.

Thanks,

Elastoplastic
aka: Joel
To which keith responded:

Quote:
Yes, please take it down. Thank you.
And Let him know that it was done

Quote:
done.
Elastoplastic
aka: Joel
Then I came on here to let you know that it was no longer available in the market at Keith's request.

And keith complained that I didn't share with you what I wrote to him (which is above) and was then posted here.

And then Keith decided to make all kinds of claims in Tuesdays show. He said I called him a "piece of shit". I will pay the person who can find that in any of my emails. The only negative thing I ever said about Keith was that him calling me an asshole was like the pot calling the kettle black. And that it was his out-of-touch asshole rants (notice I didn't call him an out of touch asshole, though I guess it was implied) that were part of the KATG fun. Which you can read for your self above.

So after todays show where he put words in my mouth. Painted me as a Child Rapist's Lawyer. And spent a good deal of the program defaming me. While in the same breath saying he has "integrity". I have to have some self respect and stop all ties with KATG. I'm very sorry that it has come to this. But this has added too much extra stress to my life to make it worth it.

What do you think?

Here's my plan:
  1. Stop listening to the show (don't need the added stress)
  2. Finish the feed reset option I was working on
  3. Stop developing the app
  4. Help whoever wants to pick up development if they choose to contact me at elastoplastic@gmail.com. Jason Mann has contacted me and I'm happy to continue helping him with whatever questions he has.

I know it won't happen, but if KATG comes to there senses and wants to write me at the email address above a written apology, as well as make a public apology on their show which they have used as a bully pulpit to make me look evil (which I won't even check for before getting a written apology). Only then will I consider contributing to this or anything KATG.

It's been a fun 5 years. Sorry to see it come to this. But you get treated like shit, at some point you have to have some self-respect and walk away.

That's the whole story...
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Old 06-16-2011, 02:06 AM   #113 (permalink)
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Oh what a lovely melodramatic whiny douche you are

Anyway hard learned pro-tip from somebody who has delivered content to clients before:
NEVER make major (and potentially rushed because you wanted it finished before the deadline) updates to your project and then leave it alone for long without checking because "I'm sure its OK now" - its most likely not
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Old 06-16-2011, 07:52 AM   #114 (permalink)
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man, way way way too long.

only point i'll make: Keith always sums up people's criticism as "they said i'm a piece of shit". its his shortened (and funny) version of your comeback, no one wants to hear the full thing and if they want they can read.
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:31 AM   #115 (permalink)
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Your post is on Keith's Facebook page

Joel, Keith posted on his Facebook, a link to your post above.

If you haven't left anything out, I guess I'd feel a little hurt too, but I think maybe you should have taken with a grain of salt. I think sometimes Keith comes off sounding more angry than he actually is. There have been a lot of times I heard him ranting about something, only to end with saying he wasn't all that upset about it, just found it interesting.

I don't have an Android, but as a KATG fan, I appreciate all the effort you put into developing the app, trying to help out the show. If you really do leave for good, I wish you luck.
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:35 AM   #116 (permalink)
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"Wisdom removed..."

Ha! How very passive aggressive.
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:23 AM   #117 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SANDwich View Post
I think sometimes Keith comes off sounding more angry than he actually is. There have been a lot of times I heard him ranting about something, only to end with saying he wasn't all that upset about it, just found it interesting.
Joel, just in case SANDwich somehow watered down what I said, allow me to say this: Fuck you. Very sincerely.

Now, congratulations on your move. Put your 1 in your wife's 0, and leave me the fuck out of it.

I said you're the lawyer of a child rapist? You're not just sensitive; you're flat-out crazy.

First I need to apologize to you in writing, then on the show... My gravy. You are insane.


EDITED TO ADD: Go fuck yourself, you piece of shit.

Last edited by Keith; 06-16-2011 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:28 AM   #118 (permalink)
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i want a written apology by keith for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

PS: androids suck.
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:05 PM   #119 (permalink)
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clarification

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
Joel, just in case SANDwich somehow watered down what I said, allow me to say this: Fuck you. Very sincerely.

Now, congratulations on your move. Put your 1 in your wife's 0, and leave me the fuck out of it.

I said you're the lawyer of a child rapist? You're not just sensitive; you're flat-out crazy.

First I need to apologize to you in writing, then on the show... My gravy. You are insane.


EDITED TO ADD: Go fuck yourself, you piece of shit.
Oh, let me clarify what I was saying. I mean when this first started, and Keith was saying some shit about it, Joel got more bent out of shape than I think he needed to. At first, I don't think Keith was actually really angry about it. But then it escalated, and yes, Keith is serious now.
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Old 06-16-2011, 12:11 PM   #120 (permalink)
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I'm making a post here FOR FREE. You're welcome everybody.
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