The Official MMA Thread

[Tank]

So glad Grant knocked out Maynard. The rest was pretty predictable. Max Holloway got jobbed.

[Bucho]

I like Gray a lot so I was bummed about that one. Then again, nice to see another Canadian kicking ass and tearing his way upward in the rankings. And it's a shame Mark broke his toe in that first round and had his movement hindered because even though it was a good FOTN-worthy scrap between him and Junior, it would have been even better if he could have moved the way he wanted.

Holloway/Bermudez and Colton/Whittaker were probably my favourite fights. The first because of how tough Bermudez is to have survived the shots Max was throwing and the second because even though Colton was comprehensively overpowered by Whittaker he was so fucking tough and just kept coming and coming. Plus it was fascinating to see Whittaker's odd low-lead-hand style be so effective. Curious to see how he goes with that against a good striker.


Meanwhile, MMA KOs galore ...

[Tank]

Tate in for Zingano on TUF: MTV.

Fox Sports 1 (1?) shaping up very nicely.

[Astigos]

Originally Posted by Tank

Tate in for Zingano on TUF: MTV.

Fox Sports 1 (1?) shaping up very nicely.

I don't like Tate going in, but realistically there's no one else.

I just looked over the FS1#1 card and it's amazing. Except for the main event. What a fucking joke. I'm not a fan of the senior circuit that eventually happens to these guys. They're too old to ever get a title shot again, and so they only fight each other so they don't mess with the prospects.

Top 3 stories I'm looking forward to at FS1#1
1. The return of Mike Brown.
2. The continuing rise of Matt Brown.
3. Overeem trying to get a win without Team Golden Glory (0-1)

[Earl Dukes]

So, hitting people when they're knocked out...I'm guessing it looks worse than it is, but has there been any deliberation on that? I remember hearing about a guy that purposefully doesn't do it. And do you guys know anything about the physiology behind people getting choked out? Dudes get up pretty quickly afterward for it to look so brutal. Never been choked out myself, so I dunno.

[Bucho]

Originally Posted by Earl Dukes

So, hitting people when they're knocked out...I'm guessing it looks worse than it is, but has there been any deliberation on that? I remember hearing about a guy that purposefully doesn't do it. And do you guys know anything about the physiology behind people getting choked out? Dudes get up pretty quickly afterward for it to look so brutal. Never been choked out myself, so I dunno.

The ref stops it asap when somebody is out if that's what you mean by "deliberation". Unlike in boxing where the fighter gets to recover just enough to receive more concentrated head trauma. The physiology behind blood chokes is that as long as the oxygen isn't cut off for an extended period (I think Dr Johnny "The Fight Doc" Benjamin says around 2-3 minutes is the danger period, but I could be misremembering) you'll be fine within moments of waking up. It's not totally without risk of complications, but those cases are extremely rare.

It's definitely not a sport for the squeamish but if you wanted to look further into it you'd find no shortage of fans happy to point out that more college football players have died in training than MMA fighters have died in sanctioned events, or that cheerleading has a higher mortality rate than competing in MMA does.

It's still a young sport so long term damage is yet to be studied as much as it has been in boxing or football, and certainly there are fighters who will suffer ill effects down the line but it's worth noting that in boxing 80% of the attacking shots are directed at the head, whereas once you add in muay thai that drops to 50%, and when you add in wrestling and jiu-jitsu and take into account that MMA fights are typically shorter than boxing matches you'll see an easy argument that an MMA fighter takes significantly less head trauma per fight than a boxer does. That may make MMA the lesser of two evils, but what are you gonna do ... I'm evil man.

[Earl Dukes]

By "deliberation", I just mean is this a point of discussion in the world of fighting or do people not really worry about it.

Your explanation is great, but missed one of the specifics. The refs stop "asap" as you say, but in the event of somebody getting knocked out by something other than a choke, the aggressor always goes in for a few extra rapid-fire punches. I'm wondering if that's necessary, why that's necessary, and if there are people out there who feel it's not.

[Bucho]

It is a point of discussion, but mostly in terms of sportsmanship. One (in)famous example was American Dan Henderson knocking out Brit Michael Bisping with a single punch while standing, then after Bisping falls to the mat clearly unconscious, Henderson drops in for another hard shot to Bisping's head before the ref got there. "Hendo" supporters say it was the right thing to do because the rules literally say that you don't stop fighting until the referee stops you. His critics say it was an asshole move because victory had already been secured and in about a second the ref would have been in there calling the fight.

On the opposite side there are guys like decorated former US Marine Brian Stann who knocked out the Italian Alessio Sakara while on the ground but instead of continuing to pound away Stann pulled up and motioned to the ref that Sakara was out even though Sakara re-awoke very quickly. It was a risky move for Stann but it earned him a ton of respect. New Zealand heavyweight Mark Hunt has become famous in MMA circles for his "walk-offs", where, after knocking his opponent out, he walks off instead of jumping on, electing not to deal out any more damage than is strictly necessary.



In terms of rules and fighter safety though it's almost never discussed. It's accepted as a necessary compromise because ground-fighting is considered a necessary part of the sport, so the fight doesn't automatically halt when a fighter hits the deck like it does in muay thai or boxing. The referee's job is to move in as quickly as possible to stop it, but these athletes are fast so avoiding at least one extra shot is nigh-on impossible unless you're dealing with one of the true gentlemen of this brutal world like Stann or Hunt.

On the plus side there seems to be a certain amount of karma which can come into play. Stann is one who has become so well-regarded by fans and fellow fighters alike for the way he carries himself both outside and inside the cage that when he was himself knocked out by the notoriously brutal Wanderlei "The Axe Murderer" Silva, the Brazilian notably pulled back from adding any extra heat to the ko, just as Stann had himself pulled back after knocking out Sakara.

[Corey420]

To clarify brain damage can start to occur at any more than 30 seconds without blood or oxygen going to your brain. But with that said in training and fights fighters rarely lose consciousness and when they do it is only for a handful of seconds (almost always less than 5) before the choke is released and the fighter is able to recover. But if it goes too far there is certainly a chance for brain damage, but this hasn't been a problem since about 1997, about the time when referees on a whole knew when to stop fights.

[Bucho]

Originally Posted by Corey420

To clarify brain damage can start to occur at any more than 30 seconds without blood or oxygen going to your brain.

I really thought it was more. I mean, these guys aren't out for more than 5 seconds, usually less, before the ref stops it, so I knew that in general there's very little danger of lasting damage, but according to Dr Johnny Benjamin, "Compression of both (one on either side of the neck) carotid arteries for eight-to-10 seconds is likely to render a person unconscious. It takes several minutes of lack of blood flow to the brain (somewhere in the range of four-to-six minutes) before permanent damage to the brain is likely to occur."

Here's the full article where he also expands on what I mentioned earlier about how under certain very rare conditions it can be more dangerous - Ask the Fight Doc: Is brain damage possible when chokes are held too long? | News ? MMAjunkie.com