the Quiverfull Movement

[Grapist]

Hooray for making every thread conservative fear mongering.

[dzagama]

Originally Posted by Grapist

Hooray for making every thread conservative fear mongering.

Grapist, in the coming apocalypse... will you hold my hand?

[spooky]

Originally Posted by Alexandra

Either way though, if they are supporting themselves and their children - what's it to you? This is pretty much my view on homosexuality and polygamy as well. It's simply none of your damn business.

Well said!

Sadly, you wont convince any democrats here that they shouldn't be forcing their beliefs on everyone anyway. When you KNOW you're right, it's just too hard to be convinced you should tolerate others constitutional freedoms to think/operate differently. Did I say democrats? Maybe I meant right wing religious nuts. I don't know anymore, it's just so hard to spot a difference.

[spooky]

Originally Posted by dzagama

I can't quite tell where your stance on the issue is, but a friend and I were discussing this recently. I concluded that, technically, the color and genetic makeup of the population is irrelevant, as long as a culture of liberty is preserved.

It's just that illegals seem to hold onto their culture tightly, or see this country as an ATM machine. I haven't figured out if the American culture of liberty and personal independence can be preserved, since illegals seem to go Democrat.

Where did you conjure this from? You say in one paragraph that holding onto culture is important, the basis of republican values, then in the next, you seem to complain about it...

You know catholic mexicans make up a large chunk of the right's voter base, right? I assume you also realize that the illegals that pay into the system aren't getting anything back, and most are working at jobs Americans will not do for the amount offered.

As far as holding onto their culture, they are openly hunted(imagine if we had a group that hunted blacks in the desert, HA!), they have a language barrier, and tend to be very religious, very family and community oriented. They are the very definition of small town america. Except for the whole getting hunted bit...

Anyway, don't look to the catholics to support the blanket stripping of their freedom of religion, no way they are going to ever support government dictating terms of religious marriage to them, or anything along those lines. They aren't democrats.

I need another coffee...

[Alexandra]

Originally Posted by spooky

Well said!

Sadly, you wont convince any democrats here that they shouldn't be forcing their beliefs on everyone anyway. When you KNOW you're right, it's just too hard to be convinced you should tolerate others constitutional freedoms to think/operate differently. Did I say democrats? Maybe I meant right wing religious nuts. I don't know anymore, it's just so hard to spot a difference.

Those who want to and feel that they are qualified to tell everyone else how to life their lives/spend their money/etc do come in many different shapes and sizes don't they? Don't lose all hope though Spooky, when it's personal to them, you have a chance to convince them. I have faith in you.

[dzagama]

Originally Posted by spooky

Where did you conjure this from? You say in one paragraph that holding onto culture is important, the basis of republican values, then in the next, you seem to complain about it...

You know catholic mexicans make up a large chunk of the right's voter base, right? I assume you also realize that the illegals that pay into the system aren't getting anything back, and most are working at jobs Americans will not do for the amount offered.

As far as holding onto their culture, they are openly hunted(imagine if we had a group that hunted blacks in the desert, HA!), they have a language barrier, and tend to be very religious, very family and community oriented. They are the very definition of small town america. Except for the whole getting hunted bit...

Anyway, don't look to the catholics to support the blanket stripping of their freedom of religion, no way they are going to ever support government dictating terms of religious marriage to them, or anything along those lines. They aren't democrats.

I need another coffee...

Fuck. I had a feeling I was leaving myself vulnerable with that post. Usually I hedge my position better.

The point is, the 'culture' of liberty is a neutral position. I am a social/economic agnostic. No one knows the optimal societal configuration, so people should stop pretending they do, and stop trying to dictate it through government. Let societies figure it out.

We can continue the discussion, but I'm afraid it will mirror a religious discussion. I have no allegiance to any party; I'll support anyone who allows individuals to choose their own adventure.

The Republican party of the Bushes and ilk are all cunts. Same with the Democrats. I've already said it in another post. Liberties cannot be divided between the two parties. All liberties must be preserved for everyone. Period.

Hey, my view is that illegals are driven away from conservative parties because 'conservatives' seem to be racist, Evangelical, ass-hats. Democrats have their arms wide open. I'm not blaming illegals, I'm blaming conservatives.

Anyways, if you peruse my other posts, you'll see that we are probably on the same page.

[spooky]

Originally Posted by dzagama

Hey, my view is that illegals are driven away from conservative parties because 'conservatives' seem to be racist, Evangelical, ass-hats. Democrats have their arms wide open. I'm not blaming illegals, I'm blaming conservatives.

Anyways, if you peruse my other posts, you'll see that we are probably on the same page.

How exactly are the democrats welcoming anyone with open arms? They alienate everyone, its how they operate, they even alienate themselves, which is why they have so much trouble getting anything done, getting anyone elected. A singular view imposed on all is the essence of that party, and they cant decide even amongst themselves what that singular view should be.

And your view of conservatives is stained with kool aid, sir, I doubt very seriously that we are on the same page.

You just don't sound very free thinking to me. You sound like the product of a marketing industry.

[dzagama]

Originally Posted by spooky

How exactly are the democrats welcoming anyone with open arms? They alienate everyone, its how they operate, they even alienate themselves, which is why they have so much trouble getting anything done, getting anyone elected. A singular view imposed on all is the essence of that party, and they cant decide even amongst themselves what that singular view should be.

And your view of conservatives is stained with kool aid, sir, I doubt very seriously that we are on the same page.

You just don't sound very free thinking to me. You sound like the product of a marketing industry.

All right, Spookster. You win.

[spooky]

Originally Posted by dzagama

All right, Spookster. You win.

nah, i don't think so. I'm speaking from the point of view of the already defeated.

things like freedom of religion are gone in this country. instead of removing government from religion, the easier and right way, we try to help government revise religion. and you're somehow homophobic if you disagree.

people still will post their negative views of the evangelical other party while in the same breath lamenting the flaws of their own party's ability to recruit, forgetting that "evangelical" isn't so much a religion as a word to describe it's recruitment.

As long as people make more money per capita in urban centers, they will always have the attention of anyone looking to market furniture, gadgets, cleaning products, and the papers and TV will cater to that audience because it is the one that sells the most ad space. And to sell more, they will sensationalize, demonize, and marginalize anything they can to sell to their buyers. It will always be news tailored to an agenda, because thats what earns.

so, no, i lose. i'm at best a vocal minority.

wah

[dzagama]

Originally Posted by spooky

nah, i don't think so. I'm speaking from the point of view of the already defeated.

things like freedom of religion are gone in this country. instead of removing government from religion, the easier and right way, we try to help government revise religion. and you're somehow homophobic if you disagree.

people still will post their negative views of the evangelical other party while in the same breath lamenting the flaws of their own party's ability to recruit, forgetting that "evangelical" isn't so much a religion as a word to describe it's recruitment.

As long as people make more money per capita in urban centers, they will always have the attention of anyone looking to market furniture, gadgets, cleaning products, and the papers and TV will cater to that audience because it is the one that sells the most ad space. And to sell more, they will sensationalize, demonize, and marginalize anything they can to sell to their buyers. It will always be news tailored to an agenda, because thats what earns.

so, no, i lose. i'm at best a vocal minority.

wah

Well played.