Sept 11 - does it still weird you out?

[BrianAlt]

Originally Posted by Bebe

Also, 9/11 was not exactly a huge thing - these kinds of terrorist attacks have occurred a lot.

Not true. There are many terrorist attacks, indeed. But none were as "successful" in creating death and mayhem as this one was.

[juliofromny]

Originally Posted by Bebe

Also, 9/11 was not exactly a huge thing - these kinds of terrorist attacks have occurred a lot.

Originally Posted by pala

I think it stems from the fact that most americans seem to think our country is some impenetrable fortress. That we're somehow "above" what the rest of the world goes through. 9-11 was the largest death toll in a terrorist attack on the mainland US. So of course these people who think we're untouchable would have a lasting memory of this event, much the same as Pearl Harbor, or to a lesser extent the Oklahoma City bombing.

I also think we need to start to realize the "War on Terror" ranks up there with the "War on Drugs". We're not going to stop terrorism, just like we're not going to stop drugs. You try to do what you can, but any extra effort is just wasted chasing some idealogical war that is never going to end.

Basically it boils down to the fact that the U.S. hasn't had a real scare since the Cold War, so politicians have to generate fear. As Machiavelli once said, fear is one of the best ways to rule. So if you are constantly applying pressure and fear to someone, they get tense and think irrationally and that is the tool that has been used that caused a lot of short-term thinking legislation to pass through the past few decades which has further depleted us of our rights and privileges we once held so dear. And the rationalizing is, most people in fear would give up some rights for safety. Only thing is we aren't really in as much danger as were back in the Cold War when Nuclear missiles used to be aimed at us. So by constantly generating little things go be scared at you just keep jumping and jumping instead of taking a pause to think (i.e. drugs, terrorist cells, gangs, illiegal immigration, The Gays, Baby killers, etc). And before you realized it you've given up all your rights and George Orwell looks like a prophet.

EDITED:

Also look at past speeches of Eisenhower and Kennedy when they talk about the imminent threat of the miltary industrial complex taking over and causing needless wars (Eisenhower) or how they dread the day when leaders are judged by their religion or influenced by them (Kennedy). It's sad how we allowed this to happen.

[Bebe]

Originally Posted by Tiger

I'd say it is mostly dealt with on the cricket pitch
Rugby Union ranks only 4th in popularity amongst our football codes.

I DISAGREE! Fight to the DEATH!

/heads for the silly mid-on position...

[st0l3n]

Originally Posted by Bebe

I DISAGREE! Fight to the DEATH!

/heads for the silly mid-on position...

Rugby is not popular in OZ they had to get some bloke from the SI of NZ to coach there team

[jeffdrafttech]

Originally Posted by Bebe

I wouldn't care as much as Americans seem to. I'm just not that patriotic.

In middle-America, patriotism has become a religion. Dissent and criticism is considered unamerican. Patriotism is a disease, the way many US citizens define it. Again, don't judge all Americans based on the crazy religious war-mongers in power; most of us didn't elect them.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Bebe

Also, 9/11 was not exactly a huge thing - these kinds of terrorist attacks have occurred a lot.

Wow...this world has been cruel to you hasn't it? You may be a little be too immune to these kinds of things.

[Bebe]

Originally Posted by Cal

Wow...this world has been cruel to you hasn't it? You may be a little be too immune to these kinds of things.

No, the world has not been cruel to me. Until recently I taught a class on global poverty. Reading about, and teaching about, what goes on in the world is sad and disheartening.

And I think I am the opposite of immune, which is kind of my point. There is just so much awful shit going on in the world, I'm not sure this is the worst of it. The needless deaths of thousands of people everyday weighs heavily on my conscience.

[st0l3n]

Originally Posted by Bebe

No, the world has not been cruel to me. Until recently I taught a class on global poverty. Reading about, and teaching about, what goes on in the world is sad and disheartening.

And I think I am the opposite of immune, which is kind of my point. There is just so much awful shit going on in the world, I'm not sure this is the worst of it. The needless deaths of thousands of people everyday weighs heavily on my conscience.

Greed rules the world
Everyone has some sort of social conscious
Put them in a situation where it could affect there pocket or make them look weak they will follow the party / corporate line
They throw a few scraps to the needy and then stand there and smile for a photo for the press

[Blitzgal]

Originally Posted by Bebe

And I think I am the opposite of immune, which is kind of my point. There is just so much awful shit going on in the world, I'm not sure this is the worst of it. The needless deaths of thousands of people everyday weighs heavily on my conscience.

To further Bebe's point, on 9/11 nearly 4000 Americans died. Since the beginning of the Iraq occupation, even by Bush's own numbers over 200,000 Iraqis have died -- other studies put the number closer to a million. I'm not even including the death toll in Afghanistan. I'm NOT SAYING that 9/11 wasn't a huge deal to us, but when you put it into perspective on a global scale it's easy to understand how someone from another country might think we're taking advantage of what happened to us in order to strike out blindly across the world.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by Bebe

No, the world has not been cruel to me. Until recently I taught a class on global poverty. Reading about, and teaching about, what goes on in the world is sad and disheartening.

And I think I am the opposite of immune, which is kind of my point. There is just so much awful shit going on in the world, I'm not sure this is the worst of it. The needless deaths of thousands of people everyday weighs heavily on my conscience.

Global poverty unfortunately is a basic principle of human society. Ever since there have been large civilizations there has been disgusting treatment of the lowest economic classes. It's just a fact of life...terrible fact but a fact none the less.

Large scale terrorist attacks on first world countries are not a fact of life and are avoidable given proper defense. America has the ability to stop attacks like 9/11 yet it still happened. Spain has the ability to stop attacks like the train bombings yet it still happened. World hunger can and should be treated, but it's a fact of life. Terrorist attacks shouldn't be.