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Old 09-14-2013, 01:41 AM   #1 (permalink)
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"Slaves Obey Your Masters"

Keith keeps bringing up this quote as if it is advocating slavery. This is the entire passage:

Colosians 3: 22 ~ Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

The next verse in Colosians 4:1~ Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.

I'm honestly getting tired of hearing how the Bible says : "Slaves obey your masters," on the show over and over again, considering the author of this text isn't advocating slavery or poor treatment of anyone.

Paul's ideas however are radical. His view seems to be that the spiritual realm is the only one of importance:

Colosians 3:1 ~ Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. 5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[b] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11 Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.

Paul is advocating pacifism to a radical extreme. He is saying the physical world is more or less pointless. I could understand finding a problem with that, but the slavery thing is just latching on to the word "slaves" and ignoring the rest of the text.

There are several rules about proper treatment of slaves within Judaism, or the Old Testament: The Bible and slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
However, it is important to keep in mind that it was Paul, who is largely responsible for Christianity rejecting all of the rules of Judaism. So all of that was either reformed or left behind.

The Bible does say a lot of shitty things. I won't argue that. For instance YHWH murders 40 some children with bears, he commands the Jews to murder women and children in the name of land and religion, he commands Abraham to kill his son as a test of faith, etc. YHWH also claims to be the source of both good and evil. In Revelation Christ returns with a sword to kill his enemies etc.

Christianity is a complex religion, but if you're going to rant about something in the Bible, you might as well bitch about something it actually says, instead of claiming it teaches something it doesn't.
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Old 09-14-2013, 04:28 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Old 09-14-2013, 04:48 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Nice pic, but wasn't your country a whole lot cleaner, safer and more productive when the whites were in charge???

Since Apartheid finished, we've had waves of Southies coming to Oz with horror stories of violence, rape etc. Poor bastards.

Just more evidence that blacks can't be trusted with anything more than a stick and a loincloth.
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Old 09-14-2013, 06:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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XrabbitX, you're a self-righteous idiot. I've been meaning to let you know for some time, and this is as good a time any.

You just quoted the quote you said people are making up, moron.
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Old 09-14-2013, 07:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
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i don't know, man. there /were/ slaves then. there've been slaves throughout all times. there are slaves now. to those of us who understand that's not ok treatment of human beings, we can look at it as a passage that encourages work ethic--whatever you do, do well--and kind management a la the golden rule. like all ancient texts, there's nuggets of stuff still applicable just wrapped in ye olde culture. perspective, yo. take what's good and leave the rest.

some folks can't do that. therein lies the problem. i can't fault a several thousand year old text for being written in a several thousand year old cultural context. i don't get mad at the illiad. ever. i /can/ and do fault people who forget we no longer live there.
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Old 09-14-2013, 07:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Just more evidence that blacks can't be trusted with anything more than a stick and a loincloth.
this is cheap, scummy.
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Old 09-14-2013, 07:46 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Scum, no dude....thats just ugly.
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Old 09-14-2013, 11:42 AM   #8 (permalink)
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XrabbitX, you're a self-righteous idiot. I've been meaning to let you know for some time, and this is as good a time any.

You just quoted the quote you said people are making up, moron.
I never said anyone is making up the quote. I'm pointing out that it isn't advocating slavery. I think there is a better discussion to have about religion and Christianity than straw-man arguments, and saying it means something it doesn't.

The letter of Colosians was written by Paul while he was in imprisoned. I think it says a lot about him that while he is under arrest his concern is for people to treat each other well, and to focus on Christ, and not his own problems.

Again the view of the author Paul is not advocating slavery. From what I've been told Paul thought the world was ending very soon at the time of his writing. Fighting the power wasn't a priority to him. If you want to say that is insane, or his form of pacifism is insane then I think that would be a more fair criticism. Implying or saying he is advocating slavery isn't.

I never claimed not to be an idiot. If I'm being self-righteous I apologize since it wasn't my intention. I do enjoy religion, and I enjoy the study and discussion of religion. I also enjoy friendly debate.

And I feel like I should point out that I do really enjoy the show. Listening to you guys has been a big source of relief to me to me in dealing with my own anxiety from my own problems, which is mostly from having to go back to school, b/c I can't find a job.

I'm not here on the forums to shit on you or Chemda. I enjoy listening to you and your guest's stories and perspectives on things, especially since New York, and the lives and thoughts of people living there are so radically different than my own, growing up in a small town in Indiana.

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Old 09-14-2013, 11:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I don't know that I'd look at the Bible as a whole and advocate using it as a moral code either. However that doesn't mean that there aren't things to be gleaned from it.
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Old 09-14-2013, 12:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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in defense of Paul's mis-use of a slavery analogy, he was working from what he had. the American ideal of equality is mega new and not even global.
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