Women Are Cheap

[marina]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I am not a femenist. I love all the courtesy things mens do for the ladies. Yep; open my door. It makes me feel pretty and I will genuinely appreciate the gesture. You don't have to always pay for my shit, but walk on the street side so non-existent historical buggies don't splash mud and horse shit up on me. It's the unspoken expectations from the cultural norm whence I work; you treat and make me feel like a woman and I'll treat and make you feel like a man.

How do you treat a man like a man?

To me it seems weird to have things that I would be obligated to do in my relationship beyond those things that are basic politeness and common sense.

[archicat]

I think women should always offer to pay and shouldn't take it for granted that the guy will. Although if the man insists on paying I don't think of it as degradation to womankind, just a nice thing that he wanted to do. However I think it's nice when guys pay for the first date, as old-fashioned an idea as that may be. After that it's nice for both parties to pay, whether one person buys dinner and the other buys the movie tickets/popcorn etc etc

My person exception to this is when I've been on 'blah' first dates (when I know I won't see the guy again) and in those cases I have insisted on splitting the bill so he didn't feel I owed him something afterwards and we both come out even.

On a sidenote, I remember hearing on the show about girls who leave the house with no money - that is crazy.

[punk'n]

I won't even go on a date with a guy if I know I don't have enough money to pay for my part of the bill, first date or not. I don't mind if the guy pays, but I would never assume that anyone is going to pay for me. I would be EMBARRASSED if I didn't have enough money to cover my half. The idea that women expect it and leave the house with no cash is silly goose.

Then again, I've never really dated a guy with significant cash. I wonder if these 2 points are related. Hehehe.

[standardman]

There are girls who take advantage of guys and guys who take advantage of girls. It just comes down to being a decent person or trying to, at least.

[missmilf25]

i think i'm somewhere in the middle of the two extremes. i'm of the mindset that whoever does the inviting does the paying even on a first date. i've also been known to do the asking out (guess i'm a bit progressive, too) and in those cases i've done the paying. but there are two clauses for me: make it very clear ahead of time that this is my philosophy and keep it even -- since this is the way that i operate, i'm not gonna do all of the asking

[Leentron3030]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I am not a femenist. I love all the courtesy things mens do for the ladies. Yep; open my door. It makes me feel pretty and I will genuinely appreciate the gesture. You don't have to always pay for my shit, but walk on the street side so non-existent historical buggies don't splash mud and horse shit up on me. It's the unspoken expectations from the cultural norm whence I work; you treat and make me feel like a woman and I'll treat and make you feel like a man.

agreed.


I've written a few paragraphs trying to explain how I feel about this but yours seems to sum it up well.

[marina]

I have been known to put money in people's houses/jacket pockets/backpacks etc in order to pay for my own meal. I even inter-office memoed a guy my share of lunch once because he insisted on paying. I object to men paying for me, but I won't make a scene. I just get the money to them other ways.

And seriously, I don't understand what you guys mean by making a man feel like a man. I have such a negative connotation to this idea from when my mom and grandmothers would try to tell me that you 'have to make a man feel like a man,' which for them meant acting stupid, doing all the cooking and cleaning, waiting on him hand and foot, always being sexually available, agreeing with everything he says, and letting him do whatever he wants up to and including physical abuse and philandering. Because my grandfathers payed for everything, they owned my grandmothers and their children and could do whatever they wanted. Seems like a raw deal. I'd rather pay my own way.

[punk'n]

Originally Posted by marina

And seriously, I don't understand what you guys mean by making a man feel like a man. I have such a negative connotation to this idea from when my mom and grandmothers would try to tell me that you 'have to make a man feel like a man,' which for them meant acting stupid, doing all the cooking and cleaning, waiting on him hand and foot, always being sexually available, agreeing with everything he says, and letting him do whatever he wants up to and including physical abuse and philandering. Because my grandfathers payed for everything, they owned my grandmothers and their children and could do whatever they wanted. Seems like a raw deal. I'd rather pay my own way.

I think Sparrow summed it up pretty well. I let Face open my doors and walk on the street side of me. He always holds my hand on the subway, etc. We joke that if we were ever confronted in a dark alley, I'd probably be more likely to fight off a bad guy than him, but it's a nice idea. He's the man, he makes me feel safe. It doesn't mean he owns me. Of course, this is only true irl. The bedroom is a whole different story....

[marina]

Originally Posted by punk'n

I think Sparrow summed it up pretty well. I let Face open my doors and walk on the street side of me. He always holds my hand on the subway, etc. We joke that if we were ever confronted in a dark alley, I'd probably be more likely to fight off a bad guy than him, but it's a nice idea. He's the man, he makes me feel safe. It doesn't mean he owns me. Of course, this is only true irl. The bedroom is a whole different story....

But what do you do in return?

I remember you saying that you like to cook, so you probably cook. I don't get it. I hate cooking. I only clean because Ben cooks and that's the trade off. It seems like opening doors and walking on the correct side is a small payment for cooking and cleaning both. Or is there some other analogous exchange?

[punk'n]

Originally Posted by marina

But what do you do in return?

I remember you saying that you like to cook, so you probably cook. I don't get it. I hate cooking. I only clean because Ben cooks and that's the trade off. It seems like opening doors and walking on the correct side is a small payment for cooking and cleaning both. Or is there some other analogous exchange?

Well, it's a little different with us. We maintain separate households 1,100 miles apart. And actually, when we do visit, he cooks and cleans as well. I have never cooked for him, but he's cooked for me several times. I try and clean but he just says I'm doing it wrong. Last time he was in town he even did my laundry while I was at work. So I don't know. Other than sexual things that I won't go into, I'm not really sure how I treat him like the man, other than just letting him take care of me, which he likes to do.