2593: Jailbird
 

with Bowen Yang – Fifty Shades Darker and The Belko Experiment reviewed; Bowen vs. Breitbart; Chemda arrested overnight

Guest:
Bowen Yang
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A nothing
 

The second you get put into a jail, you become a nothing. They treat you like shit don't give a fuck what you have to say. (I like that Chemda picked up the language so quick.. CO, etc..) The role of jails is to treat people as criminals and tell them that's all they are. This is of psychology conditions people to go back and forth in the system because it's what "they deserve". The so-called law doesn't look out for individuals, it's groups populations into good and bad. The bad deserve arresting and good don't.

firstly: oh, Chemda, what an ordeal. i'm giving you my best, biggest hugs. blah blah blah politics, sure, but at present, i just want to wrap you in a warm blanket of love and make sure you know you're safe. bless your heart, squash blossom.

secondly: Bowen is fucking awesome. LOVED Bowen. please have Bowen back.

third: The Bell Jar? The /Bell Jar/? alright, man. see how far you can manage through that girlhood rite of passage. all her thoughts are sour and matter-of-fact, but still very pretty; like they have lace edges despite herself.

I feel very sorry that you had to go through this experience I'm sure it was frightening and better communication about the processes would have sure made this easier.

But I gotta agree with Pintmans points and you got arrested in the middle of the night because the two of you made the decision to save 1 Dollar - why should a judge have to be awake to hold court in the middle of the night to make sure you get back to bed?

You regularly and gleefully talk about jumping turnstiles, stealing from shops and dedicated a whole episode (not even behind the VIP paywall) to talking about how your husband made money and how much you enjoyed helping out with "sales".

Don't get me wrong I don't say you shouldn't do that or I think you are a bad person - you can do whatever you like and the weed laws are most certainly stupid but that's not highbrow civil disobedience / political protesting the "man".
That is being damn lucky and living in a democratic country with free speech laws and a police force lenient enough to allow you to hand things to Hennessy before they take you in.

I'll join Pintman in running for cover now.

I keep thinking about whether or not I will jump it again and I keep coming up with what I felt when I was talking about it on the show: no.
No I don't want to beat the fare right now. So, is jumping it a protest? To me it is BUT not worth it. So, I'm going to protest WITH the law instead of against it. I'm joining something that Elsa told me about: #SwipeItForward.
For the first time, I bought a 30-day pass. So, when I get out of the train, I want to remember to look around to see if I can swipe someone in for free. It's legal and it helps.

About the rest of it, I am not disputing that I committed crimes. I let BabyButt pass behind me on my swipe and I didn't pay my very old ticket. I am saying that I should be punished. But not jailed. Not even for a minute. And it's not for me only. I'm saying no one should be jailed for this. Being behind bars is way too serious for a crime like that. It can easily have you lose your job and people have become homeless as a result. I'm saying the punishment does not fit the crime.

As for them not having to tell me I'm arrested, why would you get mad at me for wanting to know that I'm arrested? I said on the show that I was very calm, that I complied with everything and that was my plan the whole time. Please don't confuse my tone when talking to you with the tone (that I said on the show) that I had with the officers. I was a total puss.

Also I lost my temper on my brother. That tells me I should think more on this. I'd like to be able to debate the things I believe in in a calm way. I hope that me getting that upset was because it was 'too soon' but I'm still thinking on it.




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A quick google tells me that apparently people do get arrested for fare beating and I fully agree that that is a terrible idea and doesn't fit the crime and seems to be racist in who they target.

But you weren't arrested for that, not now, not last time and also Henessy wasn't arrested even though he didn't even show ID if I remember the story right?

You were arrested for ignoring an old ticket for 15 years. And while that is still mismatched punishment I kinda get them taking you in.
Wouldn't you agree that if all the court knows that you don't react to getting letters about it for 15 years (well I assume they stopped after sending a few and you moved since then) you most likely won't suddenly react now if they let you go this time?
Crazy overreach would have been to send the police to your house to take you in years ago.

Btw I would like to hear your arguments for why public transport should be free and how you would defend that to people with cars that have to pay their own gas.

Lanfear, you are making up that I ignored letters. I never received letters. I specifically said that I've looked up my license. I also got a new ID at least twice since that ticket. No one said anything.


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Don't tell me your problems tell me your solutions
 

I think your brother wasn't respecting your point a view and it is understandable that you got upset with him. Your brother also seems to be pushing the "come to me with solutions and not problems" thing a little to hard. It can't always be someone coming to you with solutions because some times it's better to know of a problem even if the person who came to be aware of it doesn't know what to do about it. If I see a down power line I call the electric company and tell them, they don't respond with "OK but what should we do about it! Tell me what do you think we should do besides tell you to stay away? Which you obviously already know."

I think putting you in jail for this offense is way overboard and seems to me is just lazy work on the cops part, 'Dis is wat we do, we arrest people fo tings' They somehow knew you had this outstanding thing, shouldn't they also know what that thing is? If you didn't pay a $15 fine or did you beat up a homeless person? It seems the system only records select information and could/should include other simple information. Maybe Chemda was wrong in what she did or didn't do 15 years ago but maybe instead of putting her in a cell they should have taken her to the precinct and given her the opportunity to pay the outstanding fine. They have her new address so they could find her again and also could give her another ticket for failure to resolve the matter by one of the methods offered.

I think if the po po had said it looks like you have an outstanding ticket that you didn't resolve we have to take you to the precinct where you can pay it and go home or we will issue you another summons and you will have to pay the fine within 15 days or show up in court. That might have been a better option.

Chemda I think the right situation should have been a summons. They recite you at the time of the other ticket. You can pay it at your leisure online or at a specific place. If you fail to pay that second summons. A warrant for your arrest should be issued as well as the fine. I agree it's a bit heavy-handed to arrest you after 15 years with no action.

This.

I also nominated this episode for multiple KATG awards.

Most Ridiculous for a 40+ year old getting caught jumping a turnstile.

Most Shocking that said 40+ year old is surprised there are consequences for blowing off summons, stealing from stores, jumping turnstiles, etc.

Was the punishment heavy handed? Yes. Way too harsh. However, you have to responsible for your actions.

Sorry - I assumed if they found it in the system so quickly that night that they had reached out before years ago.
And btw no shame ignoring/forgetting letters like that. I managed to do that myself before and had to pay quite a penalty after a few years.

@jalejo71

With peace and love, did you read my post. I think we're on the same side.


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i knew this felt familiar. didn't we all just have a conversation about compassionate tact after someone experiences trauma?

Chemda deserved to be lied to, treated less than human, and stored in a garbage bin? for not updating her address? get out of here.

if this conversation is a big fucking shrug at how goddamn awful our prison system is, know you're a bad person.

Regardless of whether Chemda was right or wrong, there is no excuse for the cops to lie to her and for all law enforcement involved to treat her and the other jailed women so poorly. Also, her brother was a jerk for not being supportive when Chemda was so obviously in need of emotional support.

Pintman, why are you thinking we'll forget that the cops said she WASN'T under arrest by saying that a cop doesn't have to SAY when someone's under arrest?

You gettin' tricky?

Also, what do you mean the court wouldn't have a person's new address? Somehow they keep finding us for jury duty.

C'mon now...

No, you moron. When 2 people walk into a turnstile together, is that so cut and dry that they'd be killed? This is why my great idea will never work: Idiots.

Seriously though, yes it would apply here. The cops would be murdered for lying about someone being or not being under arrest.

Lanfear: "Doubt it."

I have to say, hearing Chemda tear into Michael like that kind of made my day. Also, you've now not only survived a tumor but jail too. Massive street cred.

This episode is the closest to "triggered" I have ever felt in a long time.

I was about to type out my horrible experience with the police...

Ugh.. I just can't..

Chemda, I told you the story last year when I came to NYC. :(

I'm so sorry you went through this...

Is Chemda perfect? No... Are any of us on this forums? No...

Maybe take a sec to show compassion while trying to lecture somebody that was caught up in a fucked up system...?

Can we agree the system is fucked up? Can we agree it's built to make money off making people criminals for petty or sometimes no reason? Can we agree it is a system that relies on criminals staying criminals so they can keep money pumping through the prison system? YES!!

STOCKS IN PRIVATE PRISONS WENT UP THE DAY AFTER DT WAS ELECTED.

Broken window policing? Anyone heard of that??? Stop & frisk?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.e193f66184c0

Should Chemda stop her petty theft streak? Yes.

Should she have paid the fare? Yes.

Did she need to get lied to on the way to jail by people in positions of power? No. Did she need to be treated like an animal once in the system? FUCK NO

Is Chemda gonna be scared everytime she sees a cop car or a person in police uniform like I am? Probably... That is fucked up, I'm sorry.. It just is....

It would have been nice if they did, I guess. But, again, what difference would that have made? What would Chemda had done differently? How would the outcome have been different? That's a red herring.

Because jurors are selected (varies from state to state) from voter rolls, tax records, driver license records, and so forth. Not from lists of defendants with outstanding warrants. You C'mon now!

it would have been nice, huh? you guess? mhm. for the people paid by your taxes, that are bound to serve and protect you, to inform you you're being arrested while they send you through the process of being arrested?

you have rights when you're being arrested. they wanted to delay her opportunity to "do something" long enough to get her to sign it away.

THEIR ARREST TACTICS ARE BUILT TO BYPASS RIGHTS. but, it would have been /nice/, you guess.

you know what's "nice" Pintman, talking it out over a cup of tea. this is profiteering.

I'll ask these simple, straightforward questions a third time: What would have been different if they would have said at the start "you are under arrest"? What would Chemda have done differently? How would the outcome have been any different?

Maybe you and some others here are confusing "getting arrested" with "getting charged."

Bull. Absolute bull. The taxpayers lost money on Chemda's arrest.

You want to break the law on little things like weed, hopping turnstiles, sneaking into movies, jumping on the tab because the barman's an asshole? Fine. I have. But if you get caught, own it. Don't make excuses.

she can own it while still being disgusted with her treatment, the state of the facility, and the system wherein that is the tip of the ice berg.

Yes I do doubt that even in your fucked up racist/classist/sexist prison industrial complex bullshit system they never sent any letters and just decided 15 years later to arrest somebody because these 2 cops needed a ride back to the station.

Sorry everything with your government is worse than I can rationally imagine.

What would be different if she knew what was happening?

Aye yie yie...

I guess for one, she would know what was happening.

2 wrongs don't make a right, *shrug* *smile* *runs off with a flower*

comparing Chemda's petty crimes with something you can argue as modern day slavery is…i don't know, tastes a little…smug, maybe? it certainly smacks of asshole.

I'll answer your question, Pintman. It's a question of trust -- being able to trust that in the US, the person arresting you is not a lying, sadistic bully and you have no idea where he's taking you or for how long. That's supposed to be one of the benefits of living in the US, that there are fair processes in place that respect basic human rights.

Pintman,

The difference would be psychological and informative. Both are reasonable.

It made a huge difference to find out the way I found out. It scared the shit outta me. Made me worried that complying might have been what got me arrested to begin with.

I don't believe I deserved to be jailed but I know I would have still gone to jail even if they told me they were arresting me.

Now I want to ask you if it made a difference to know. And if next time I can have the benefit of knowing that I am a human. And that when I'm not treated that way, maybe don't get mad at me. Get mad that they could and would do it to you too. And that you are probably just as big a criminal as I am. Do you deserve to be locked up?

I feel the same about weed. Do parents deserve to be locked up for giving their kid medicine for their seizures? Will the "shouldn't have done that" still apply?

I don't believe that tickets, even outstanding ones, should result in locking people in a cage.

Can we stop getting mad at each other for breaking laws that we don't believe in? Who is actually responsible for calling us criminals?


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Most of the men that tanked our economy in illegal ways are still running free, making tons of money... I bet a bunch of them made a shitload while investing in the private prison system the day after DT was "elected".

Chemda missed a summons/"jumped a turnstile" & was treated way worse than any of them will...

Does anyone else see a problem here??? :confused:

I'm very sorry you had to go through that, the whole experience sounds harrowing. Wasting jail, court, and cop resources on a (no-victim) ticket is absurd. I like the idea that after the record check the cops just re-cite for what's in the system as long as the first offense is at the same level.

That being said (I'm already ducking) we only have the one system. Putting you in custody is the only thing they have when you don't pay a fine, whatever the reason; I didn't do it, I lost the ticket, I didn't think they were serious, I didn't have the money, etc. We also only have one jail and court system, not one for nice people and one for the "real" criminals. That is no excuse for them treating people like animals, but best to avoid the system and petition for change from the outside.

Finally, about the "your not being arrested" thing. He kept saying that so you'll wouldn't freak out on they platform. He was trying to save himself a fight from the subway to the detention center that he didn't know whether or not would turn into a wrestling match, escape attempt, or just a royal cussing for the half hour it took to get where you were going. He would not have been able to tell from looking at you that you were a smart, strong person, that doesn't do this stuff normally. I don't fault him for that.

A similar shitty thing happened to a friend of mine in Brooklyn this summer. Last winter he got a ticket for drinking on a stoop (which he forgot to pay), and in August the cops rolled up on him drinking on another stoop and he went through the same thing Chemda described. Fucking sucks. The shittiest part for him was feeling like he had zero control over the situation, no one listens to you when you're in there, you don't know where you're going or really how long it will take.

Yeah, you can say "well you should've paid your ticket," fine. That doesn't mean any of this treatment is justified. The point of putting someone through jail for an unpaid ticket is to demonstrate the absolute control of the state, to show that if you don't toe the line and follow the rules, we can take you and hold you and there's nothing you can do about it.

Michael was frustrating because he's trying to rationalize a system that is inherently unjust. He's accepting the fact that people are fined and put away for all sorts of shit that doesn't matter, and being nitpicky about how we should best accomplish fining and putting people away. Anyway, I enjoyed him getting shouted down, it seems like lately he only calls in when y'all are discussing serious things and he feels the need to set the record straight or insert himself as the voice of reason or whatever. I just wanna hear some drunk Michael stories.

Was not expecting Keith to pick up the Bell Jar, but the rationale ("I like jars") makes sense. I hope you stick with it, I love love love that book.

that's what people said when those cops shot those unarmed dudes. you're seriously saying this cop was so afraid of Chemda? of doing his job, the one where he's literally trained to deal with crazy, scary criminals? /so/ afraid he couldn't even /tell her/ what was going on. well, golly!

Why are you deliberately omitting parts of the story? So that you can stick with THE LAW IS THE LAW IS THE LAW point of view?

She was lied to and tricked the entire night. You heard that also. Why are you ignoring that?

She was in the "detention center" and lied to and tricked hour after hour.

"Detention center..." Shame on you.