3543: Top Gun w/ Dustin Nickerson
 

New guest, comic, and former youth pastor Dustin Nickerson joins Keith and Chemda as they discuss the May 2022 Texas elementary school shooting, the capturing of the NYC Q Train shooter, and violence begetting violence. Also, Keith saw a special viewing of Top Gun: Maverick, and Maverick still has a problem with authority. With that said, when he’s right … oh man he’s right.

Guest:
Dustin Nickerson
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I'm a dirty bird
 

I have a confession. I picked up a mattress from the curb before. There's really no good explanation. It was a stop gap before I could buy my own. I sprayed the shit out of it with disinfectant and wrapped it with a waterproof wrapping. I was so nervous I'd get bedbugs. But I didn't and it all "worked out". 😵😶

From another continent the shootings and the reactions seem kind of bizarre.

1. A terrible shooting happens.
2. People send thoughts and prayers.
3. Sane people point our that there are too many, too easy available guns in America.
4. Insane people, unfortunately the other half say that in fact more guns are needed. A gun for every child and teacher. A gun for every dog. This would help for sure. They try to blame someone they don't like for the shooting like BLM, trans people or Greta T.
5. Nothing changes.
6. A new shooting happens.

I'm pretty good at ADULT SHIT and I still understand Keith very well.
In fact I'm not suicidal but it I'm looking forward to be dead to not have to deal with bureaucracy. "Ms Apia please answer this letter and add copies of all contacts and your tax number and 1000 more things"
' I will not, because I'm dead. Ha"

So, I did what Dustin says he does and let the trauma of the shooting into my brain but then it wouldn't go away. And I was thinking about how it's total bullshit for a Republican (because let's face it, it usually is) to say it just all comes down to mental health. Lucky for them (and sucks for everybody else) that their ideology also happens to be against increasing funding for access to services and treatments for mental illness. Instead, they give their thoughts and prayers and nothing gets done all the while the Boogeyman that is "mental illness" grows and grows. So, we're stuck in this strange loop where Republicans actually make both the shooter (by stigmatizing mental illness) and the mass shooting (by basically handing out free gun passes.) It's time they start getting called out.

I can’t let myself ever get numb to children dying. There has to be a line somewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It was going great with sex numbers growing. I was living life and experiencing new partrers like a champ. Until got into a good, non poly relationship in 2006 I am still in now.
So I guess the number 14 is not about to change anytime soon.

Adult shit has me throwing more tantrums as an adult than I ever did as a child.

It all boils down to...

"STOP ASKING ME TO DO SHIT."

I have done enough things. Don't ask me to do shit anymore. No errands, no favors, no questions, enough already.

I get it.
My motivation is like this:
" Apia other people live in Afghanistan and have to marry a disgusting guy by the age of 14.
You have to have stupid discussions with compliance department. That's still lucky"

yeah and I don't have to walk miles to get clean water for my family I guess I should be grateful or whatever.

I can still be annoyed at dumb shit while being grateful for the good things.

Same here.

Totally understand how you would see this as the cycle given the coverage. If the news and politicians had a world wide network aimed at outlawing electron transfer because so many people die every year from lightning strikes (which is FAR more common occurance) then you would be up in arms about removing all electrons from every atom and pissed when there was a reason for atoms to have electrons that outweighs the negative effect of lightening strike deaths, yes?


Please explain how mass murdering children doesn't have a mental health issue involved? How can you even pretend that a mentally healthy, intact, sane person would murder children? Very interested how you square this. For the mental health funding perspective...why is it the governments role/responsibility to force "mental health" on the citizens? Do you think his friends, family, neighbors, etc. should take an active role in getting him help or are you proposing some kind of mass mental screening in schools or something? Free gun passes? interesting idea. Have you ever bought a gun in the United States? Are you aware of all the laws around mental health aptitude, background screening, etc. that happens to clear a gun sale? The USA already has substantial gun regulation but they just won't use the laws they already have. The answer is to use the laws rather than just keep making more laws. The law only matters to people who follow it.


Why did school shootings begin in the late 70s/early 80s? Answer isn't because guns didn't exist before then or because guns are better now etc. 1934 was gun regulation to make automatic weapons illegal. Why do other countries with armed populations not have these issues like Switzerland? Can it possibly be the gun or are there any other correlations we can see? Is there any correlation w/ suicide rates? Anything else happening during the heights of these crimes?

To put an even finer point here...why is USA so obsessed with gun crimes and coverage/fetishization of it? Feel the world thinks there aren't mass murders with knives or bombs etc. in other countries all the time since they aren't on the news. Believe it was the same day or possibly the following from the Buffalo shooting there was a radical muslim bombing that killed ~90 people, not a peep about stopping bombing.

If guns aren't available (which isn't what gun laws do, they just make firearms only available to criminals) do you think these suicidal kids will just pivot to bombs? Columbine was a bombing attack that they planned to shoot a few kids and kill themselves after...sure most on here have never heard this before. Bombs are FAR more effective to kill others, guns are the weapon of choice for suicides (including these types of public murder for media coverage suicides). Columbine estimates are in the thousands dead had the bombs been effective. How do we stop that? Make propane, clocks, sugar, calcium, fertilizer, etc. all illegal or try to reach the children and help them with their mental issues through something other than SSRIs amphetamines tranquilizers etc?

You edited that? Lord Jesus ...

Keith, have you ever tried to buy a gun? Was your jail time a felony?

I'll break this way down into baby bites. Keith, is it more likely to die at school from a mass shooting or be struck by lightening?

Why are you even asking? Did you Google it first? Are you planning on changing your opinions or just want to be provocative and contrarian? I really don't feel like putting energy in if it's the latter.
(Also, I didn't say it didn't play a role. You misrepresented what my post was about to ask that question.)

Guns
 

The only explanation I can get from why certain republicans won’t ban guns is that they are able to do the mental maths and are satisfied that the profit to be made from selling guns and bullets is worth more than innocent childrens lives because …… well…… capitalism ��

I trust that the majority of people in the USA are outraged by this I just wish I knew of a way to ban the sale of guns and an amnesty for the ones already in circulation.

Don’t engage seriously. They’re a sad angry troll who continues to post on a forum where literally everyone thinks they’re a joke. Cuckold is not the accurate term, but the energy is the same.

I'm totally interested in having my mind changed. I quoted your whole comment before, how did could that be unrepresentative? You called mental health a "boogeyman"...I didn't misrepresent you at all. If you had to put a representative percentage of cause for mass murder what percent would you attribute to the murderer and what percent to the tool used, in this case a gun? Like what percent responsible was John Wayne Gacy and how responsible were lengths of rope or bath tubs?

Capitalism is the problem you say? How profitable are gun sales? When do gun companies make the most money? Do they make more after gun grabbing political sabre rattling? Are there more sales after shootings? Could the second amendment be about more than wanting to murder children? Are gun manufacturers under full court press, filling bankruptcys, having illegal rulings against them civilly?

Which one of these two is preventable?

I argue, neither. You argue interpersonal violence is preventable. Others will argue both are preventable - see climate change enthusiasts.

Let's use an example you like better. More likely to die in a school mass shooting or to die driving to school? Both will meet your idea of "preventable" if we just eliminate all vehicles and all transport of any kind then people can't die in transit, right? Is there any unintended consequence in doing this? Will the technology of transit systems somehow magically disappear? Is the cure worse than the disease? Have we not as a society evaluated speed limits recently and found that raising speed limits was actually the best answer for the society when we were trying to find a reason in "da science" to lower them?

They both are to some degree preventable, but climate change, you're immediately trying to start another argument. Prevention from lightning is not climbing the highest tree around flying an all metal kite with metal wire. Ridiculous statement to make, climate change enthusiasts.

If you ask enough silly questions I guess you make another argument right.

Let's put it this way, since we are all about putting it different ways.

An 18 year old with no training obtained an Ar-15 on his actual 18th birthday, with no training, no evaluation and/or testing, has changed the lives of an entire community. Not a lot of accidents take 21 lives at the same time.

You're equating things like a psychopath.

I have been and used weapons most of my life in my various jobs and service, I don't take this stuff lightly. What is happening in the US is the very definition of insanity.

Supported by an amendment made in the 1700's, for a "well trained" militia. Well none of these shooters are well trained nor are they a militia.

Raising speed limits, such a silly argument.

I cycle about 14,000 KM a year on roads and gravel etc, raising speed limits kills people. Now if you want to actually make a point, raising speed limits on highways makes sense and minimums for each lane of a highway makes even more sense. Less chance of disparity of speed.

Neighbourhoods, should be much lower than currently.

Stop asking questions to make a point and make your point.

Yes, there are ways to minimize but not a way to prevent lightning from striking nor for interpersonal violence to occur. We will differ on what those ways are. I think a polite well armed society is safer (and historical data agrees) you appear to think mother government will hold you to her bosom and has your safety and best interest at heart (has never appeared to be true in the history of human governance).

Let's talk solutions to this because I also think this is bullshit. Is it legal to sell a gun to a person with suicidal idealization? NO. Is it legal to forge government documents like a background? No, its a felony. Did both these things happen for him to illegally purchase these guns? YES. Has the news, like almost always, claimed an illegal firearm sale was legal just because the kid didn't get arrested/caught for it at the time? Should this child who told a bunch of different people he was going to shoot his grandma and a grade school have been properly reported? YES, was he? NO. Will making more laws make more criminals follow laws? No.

P.S. Why would you want a criminal trained? Shouldn't we have the training go to good guys. Maybe a how to close and lock a door training. Or a basic CQB training for officers, etc?

This is the most informative and important sentence of your response. First, this morning there were 22 casualties in a single accident. Not important to the main point but just to point it out again; just because one thing is blasted at your face by the media and another is completely ignored doesn't mean one thing is real and another doesn't exist. The main point here is that you are highlighting the point that it is due to the bunching of casualties in single events, even though EXTREMELY RARE events, there is a greater emotional reaction. This is paramount to the point. It is an emotional reaction and not a rational reaction. If we approached this rationally instead of hyping up manifestos and blasting horror stories and covering funerals constantly to drive an emotional response we would be evaluating the NET effect of firearms. I know we can't fully do this because the cost of the US loosing guns is speculative but if we just used some simple metric already available for the net effect...like maybe the FBI stats, that would be a rational, dare I say "common sense" approach. Any idea what the net effect on casualties in the USA of firearms are on interpersonal incidences? Probably not cuz it's not on the news...hint its VERY positive.

I'm sorry Csis you've been reading too many memes. Is that what the second amendment says? No. You literally misquoted and took out of context and misunderstood a single sentence. This is Rod level work, try harder.

It is and was apt to the point of cost benefit analysis.


Here is your required reading to get up to speed a little: The Bell Curve, That Every Man Be Armed, & The Better Angels of Our Nature. These should give you at least a small base to operate on the issues at hand namely historical trajectory of violence, causes of different types of violence and origin and application of the second amendment. If you finish these and have deeper dive questions around the statistical methodologies or philosophic applications I'm always here for you and can address at that time.

How do you mean?

Csis got me talking all about the guns perspective...it's so easy to fall into this trap. The issue is these kids' mental health struggles. Just look at the cycle. Almost to a a perfect correlation we see no dad, depression pharma like crazy, social isolation (see comments on lockdowns), sexual displacement or degenerations, lots of red flags where ANYONE could help and NO ONE does. Again, see my previous inquiry around why the 1980s seems to be such a turning point for this mold of young men.

Get fucked.

Yes this is just the kind of forums cuckery Nord lives for. They’re edging themselves through 18 paragraphs of pseudo-intellectual right-wing talking points, just begging for some punishment. When someone finally gives them a tongue lashing, not even the Hoover dam could hold back the shame-fetish induced splooge they erupt with. Not trying to yuck any yums here, but the only thing sadder is Keith’s dad trying to get attention with a chili recipe. Hey, anyone else remember when they got caught making fake accounts to argue on a forums where everyone hates them? Ahahahahhahahaa you can’t make this shit up, what a sad clown with a sad clown life :D

Ah, I can see how you could take it take way, but the context was within the framework of Republicans saying mental health is the only thing that deserves attention. And by doing that, they make mental health a boogeyman. Not that I think mental health is a boogeyman. I would love it if more seriousness was taken regarding the issue and more resources were utilized by the people who need it. Sometimes, they don't seek treatment because of the Boogeyman created by Republicans which serves to increase stigma. People are the VA have cited not wanting their names on a mental healthcare treatment list lest their guns get taken away as a reason for not seeking treatment. If you ask me, that's one example of the circular blame game where people are dissuaded from getting help instead of seeking it out -- a consequence of focusing solely on generic "mental health".

And to answer your question: having the gun is the common factor in all these cases. Mental health can play some percentage but cheap, easy access to a tool whose sole purpose is to kill (and its accessories) is present and accounted for 100% of the time in mass murderers where's firearms is used. Furthermore data has been able to show that the mental health of shooters should not come as a surprise (https://www.theviolenceproject.org/m.../key-findings/) but what substantive policies or changes to the system are being made? I assume the reason people bring up mental health is to imply they shouldn't have access to guns. So, it's not like restricting access to certain types of weapons and increasing the difficulty in getting them isn't the goal. Of course, if all you're really doing (as those on the right seem to be) is blowing smoke up people's asses, action to address the goal isn't something we would get. And that's what we see. No action. You always heard math teachers telling you to "show your work" and that's my starting position on this issue. Show your work or shut up cause you're probably cheating somehow.

This is my version of Keith needing to see movies lol

I totally agree with you that mental health should be made more available but think the path there is through de-cartelizing providers, de-monopolizing through government intervention and direct to consumer options rather than government mandating it be tied to employment for some unfathomable reason. Biggest problem here still is that sick people or their families have to DO SOMETHING proactive to get treatment. I think these peoples families should absolutely be held liable too if it can be proven in court that they intentionally ignored multiple warning signs. These violent acts of suicide seem to have lots of opportunities where they could have taken proactive steps to stop them way up stream from gun restriction. And like I've been trying to communicate even if we remove legal gun access they will just get illegal guns (as keeps happening in almost every case) or they will use more effective tools which frankly will end up with more people dead in their public suicides.

This is silly pants. This is a definitional logical fallacy. 100% of the time a camel is used when someone rides a camel. Pointless statement. And yes, I know Keith said this same thing on an episode and he made the exact same fallacy.

such predict

The only thing funnier and better than this would be the discovery that XenoTitty is one of Nords "alternate" accounts.

Yeah yeah yeah, remember when you made fake accounts though?! :D

nope...sounds fake since you are supposedly my alt account?

Classic sketchowl …

Good step or bad step?

Seriously though, can we discuss this. But like seriously.

“Talk to me like a normal person even though I have done NOTHING to show I am capable or even deserving of it!” -Some clown probably

ok, go

A/S/L