1268: When Doves Cry (A Period Piece)

[Medium Brumski]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

I will never be able to understand how in the world it is possible for anyone to do such a thing. My imagination is not broken enough that I need to stare at somebody else's dick in my porn. I agree with Junkenstein 100% on this; straight males have a really weird relationship with penises that I don't think constitutes true heterosexuality.

Porn is about fantasy and my fantasy doesn't involve anybody's penis but my own. When I'm attracted to a chick, I don't think about somebody else fucking her. I don't imagine that scenario with a vantage point of right behind my swinging sack.

You're right, Junk, I've run into far more men that are like how you describe rather than like me. I don't get it.

Did you actually mean to quote my post? You cut off the parts where I negated everything you then went on about in your reply post.

I don't get the close-ups on genitalia or money shots in porn, but I also don't get Bobs and Junks assertions on how their existence can skew ones sexuality.

[Junkenstein]

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

I don't get the close-ups on genitalia or money shots in porn, but I also don't get Bobs and Junks assertions on how their existence can skew ones sexuality.

Not genitalia in porn, silly.

The obsession over dicks in sexuality. Porn depicts stuff that way because that's how sex is seen.

The majority of straight guys are focused on their own cock, uninventive, stiff and full of inhibitions.

i took the porn argument to make a wider stance.

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

Did you actually mean to quote my post? You cut off the parts where I negated everything you then went on about in your reply post.

No, you didn't. I was emphasizing the fact that my fantasies are not third person experiences. I don't know how you didn't understand that. I thought I was pretty clear. And "everything" is not "one sentence".

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

I don't get the close-ups on genitalia or money shots in porn, but I also don't get Bobs and Junks assertions on how their existence can skew ones sexuality.

Dude, do not sit there and try to tell me that you and I are the same sexuality. I find men sexually repulsive and do not want them to even speak behind a camera. You want them in your porn with their dick out. There is a pretty fucking clear difference there.

Originally Posted by hayroob

I'm pretty sure that dudes who tell other dudes how they should get off also have issues.

Could just be my issues though, so who knows.

I don't know that anyone's said in this thread what people should do.

Originally Posted by hayroob

If enjoying watching a dude fuck a chick makes me gay then sign me up.

I've given it some thought and the ideas projection and voyeurism and the various kinds of responses to the mechanics of sex are parts of why I and I suspect most people like watching porn. It's a complicated jumble and I don't have a satisfactory or clean representation for what is I like, especially because what I like shifts so often.

The thing is I don't need to work out a good representation. I look around, I see what I like, I go with it.

I don't think you're what Junk and I have been talking about. As long as everybody's okay with what they're into, cool beans.

But you have to be able to understand my conundrum of what sexuality is finding men sexually repulsive? Because it isn't heterosexuality. I thought it'd as far over there as possible, but evidently not.

[Medium Brumski]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

No, you didn't. I was emphasizing the fact that my fantasies are not third person experiences. I don't know how you didn't understand that. I thought I was pretty clear. And "everything" is not "one sentence".

Your fantasies aren't third person, but the porn you're into is, and porn is about fantasy. Strange that you say your imagination isn't broken, yet you can't imagine yourself in the position of the dude on the screen doing the fucking, that's why I don't understand you.

And you did take out more then one sentence, most of it wasn't pertaining to the point you were making, but you did take out the part where I said I don't need a penis shot, which is what you seem to think guys do need if there is a male actor present.

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Dude, do not sit there and try to tell me that you and I are the same sexuality. I find men sexually repulsive and do not want them to even speak behind a camera. You want them in your porn with their dick out. There is a pretty fucking clear difference there.

Are we the same sexuality, assuming that sexuality is only divided into gay, bi or straight, then yes we are. I'm straight and I'm assuming you are to. Do I find men sexually repulsive? I suppose I do, but I also find alot of women sexually repulsive. However I don't find the male form in general repulsive, but I've probably spent to much time on the farm and in a science lab to find alot of things repulsive.

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

I don't know that anyone's said in this thread what people should do.


I don't think you're what Junk and I have been talking about. As long as everybody's okay with what they're into, cool beans.

Cool beans indeed, just watch your assertions when coming to matters that tend to have a gray area.

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

Your fantasies aren't third person, but the porn you're into is, and porn is about fantasy. Strange that you say your imagination isn't broken, yet you can't imagine yourself in the position of the dude on the screen doing the fucking, that's why I don't understand you.

Imagination adds, it doesn't take things out.

You're doing a weird sort of gymnastics here where you're trying to group my porn in with yours, and you do so by heavily contorting the wording of my post. I said quite clearly that people's fantasies do not involve a third person view of themselves, and that is not something that is either in my fantasies nor my porn.

And how immensely bizarre is it that a straight male can't understand someone who doesn't want penis in his porn? It seems like this whole country has an immensely contradictory definition of heterosexuality. If I like penis, I'm gay. But if I don't like penis, I'm weird. There's some serious issues there. Evidently the secret nobody says is that "heterosexual" means "likes to look at men but doesn't do anything with them".

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

And you did take out more then one sentence, most of it wasn't pertaining to the point you were making, but you did take out the part where I said I don't need a penis shot, which is what you seem to think guys do need if there is a male actor present.

You really have trouble reading.

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

Are we the same sexuality, assuming that sexuality is only divided into gay, bi or straight, then yes we are. I'm straight and I'm assuming you are to. Do I find men sexually repulsive? I suppose I do,

That is what is known as a lie.

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

but I also find alot of women sexually repulsive.

Dodge.

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

However I don't find the male form in general repulsive, but I've probably spent to much time on the farm and in a science lab to find alot of things repulsive.

Distortion of context.

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

Cool beans indeed, just watch your assertions when coming to matters that tend to have a gray area.

My assertion is that you are more fond of penises than me, and I don't think there's anything inaccurate about that whatsoever.

"Gray area" is precisely what I'm talking about. Gray is a midpoint on a spectrum between black and white. Sexuality is generally defined by attraction to genders, and generally the extremes of that spectrum involve preferring one gender to the point of completely excluding the other. You are not an extreme, you are a gray area. This is what I'm saying.

Originally Posted by hayroob

I think that's just your bag. It's not a hetero/homo/other thing.

I don't know how this isn't. I don't understand how penises stop being penises the minute a woman is in the frame.

Originally Posted by hayroob

You find a cock in your porn "repulsive", I find them a plus. If you took that sentence in isolation I sound a little out there, but since what I'm talking about is a cock entering a woman, I think I'm square. There's a million things that each and every one of us would love in porn that many others wouldn't be into at all and might even find repulsive, but thats about sexuality in a much broader sense.

Whatever turns you on and doesn't hurt anybody else is what you should go with and don't get caught up thinking that you gotta draw lines on something gray.

P.S. Medium Brumski great post.

See, this all just sounds like complete bullshit. No straight male wants to address the question of "If you're straight, what am I, because I refuse to be identified by a word you all have taken?"

My point is that, in the case of males, heterosexuality is the furthest extreme to describe sexual attraction to women we've come up with, so how is it possible that my complete distaste for men puts me at odds with the majority of that group?

You guys want to keep saying "gray area", my point is most everybody is gray area, and you need to give me the term for an extreme endpoint back. Your spectrum starts at gray and goes to white. There can't be any black, because I'd be over there and you guys would still be gray and we can't have that, can we?

Originally Posted by stulagu

This is the statement Bob that I think is confusing everyone. I think it is fairly clear that by saying you agree with Junk 100% on this (right after he said he thinks 98% of guys are secretly gay and other comments) and then talk about true heterosexuality, you are asserting that if you like to see another guy in porn, you aren't 100% straight.

That's more or less what I'm saying.

Or at least that if 100% straight involves wanting some dick in your porn, what the fuck does that make me?

Originally Posted by stulagu

I love seeing girl/guy action in regular tv or porn...the rough scene from Rome is one of my favorites of all time, yet I don't necessarily like it that rough. But MAN that is a turn on to watch. What does that make me? That I like to see the girl AND some passionate aggression? I'm a closeted lesbian into S&M?

It means you can see something sexually attractive in S&M and women, even if you don't enjoy them yourself. This is what I'm saying. Men who want dicks in porn find something sexually attractive in males.

Really, I pretty much have to define myself as a male lesbian because straight males refuse to let "straight male" mean "finds nothing sexually attractive about penises and in fact is wholly against penises in general".

[stulagu]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

It means you can see something sexually attractive in S&M and women, even if you don't enjoy them yourself. This is what I'm saying. Men who want dicks in porn find something sexually attractive in males.

Really, I pretty much have to define myself as a male lesbian because straight males refuse to let "straight male" mean "finds nothing sexually attractive about penises and in fact is wholly against penises in general".

I'm not sexually attracted to women in the least. I find the curves and softness of a woman beautiful, just like I find a man with a broad muscular back artistically appealing. It doesn't mean when I see a boob I want to lick it. It doesn't mean that when I see a beautiful woman I start thinking about sex. I don't see any man and want to start having sex right then and there, it is many MANY aspects of a man that makes me sexually attracted to him. Not just that he is a man and has a penis.

I really think your whole argument is conviluded in your fear of being considered just 1% gay. And really, what the hell is that anyway?

Why can't a guy see a hard penis and go "oh, a hard penis...I like when my penis gets hard, good things tend to happen" and then they're thinking of their hard penis and then their penis is hard. Does that mean the guy just turned gay?

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by stulagu

I'm not sexually attracted to women in the least. I find the curves and softness of a woman beautiful, just like I find a man with a broad muscular back artistically appealing. It doesn't mean when I see a boob I want to lick it. It doesn't mean that when I see a beautiful woman I start thinking about sex. I don't see any man and want to start having sex right then and there, it is many MANY aspects of a man that makes me sexually attracted to him. Not just that he is a man and has a penis.

I really think your whole argument is conviluded in your fear of being considered just 1% gay. And really, what the hell is that anyway?

Why can't a guy see a hard penis and go "oh, a hard penis...I like when my penis gets hard, good things tend to happen" and then they're thinking of their hard penis and then their penis is hard. Does that mean the guy just turned gay?

What fear? How could I possibly have any fear of it? Also, that last paragraph: yes, that's pretty gay.

I'm not saying you're sexually attracted to women, but you can see something appealing to them. You must if you like watching them in sexual situations. Am I the only person that watches porn because I think the shit in it is sexually appealing? Apparently everybody's porn has less to do with their sexuality than their opinion of sandwiches.

It's really odd how people's insecurities are determined to flip this back on me. If I was the least bit attracted to dudes I'd be super open with it. I've tried reading gay porn just to see if it does anything for me. I've tried to watch straight porn just to see if I like it. But when I come back and report the results that I fucking lose my hard on whenever a dude is involved, people get all kinds of defensive and suspicious.

This really is some shenanigans if we refuse to have a word that describes a sexual unattraction to males, we're suspicious of anyone who doesn't want dick in their porn, and we maintain that porn has nothing to do with sexual desires. All of these contentions make absolutely no sense. And my whole point here is that when people start doing acrobatics like that to force the interpretation of facts to fit a conclusion, somebody's trying to avoid something.

[Junkenstein]

this argument started in my head as a point about the lack of fantasy in the straight male sexuality, that is dick centered and weirdly obsessed by penis.

Not a bad thing, enjoy what you enjoy, but why then male bisexual are regarded as weirdos. Or a guy like Bob that simply says that he hates seeing dudes in porn is suddenly abnormal.

Mysteries.

[stulagu]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

I'm not saying you're sexually attracted to women, but you can see something appealing to them.

Maybe it is semantics but I don't see anything appealing in women. I can look at a woman's naked body just like I look at a landscape and say both are beautiful with the same amount of emotion and meaning.

When I see a couple have sex in tv or a movie, it makes me think of sex, which makes me think of sex with my husband, which makes me want sex. If a guy sees someone's penis and thinks about sex which them makes him want to have sex, how does that make him gay? or bi?

...Also, what Doug said...

[Medium Brumski]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Imagination adds, it doesn't take things out.

Wrong, it does lots of things.

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

You're doing a weird sort of gymnastics here where you're trying to group my porn in with yours, and you do so by heavily contorting the wording of my post.

I'm going off the fact that, I believe you said, you only watch girl/girl porn, so in that case you have to be the watcher, third-person. If your fantasies involve you getting involved, all very good, but then that would make it a first-person experience, hence my statement. Not really sure what gymnastics you're talking about.

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

I said quite clearly that people's fantasies do not involve a third person view of themselves, and that is not something that is either in my fantasies nor my porn.

How are you telling people what their fantasies are?

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

And how immensely bizarre is it that a straight male can't understand someone who doesn't want penis in his porn? It seems like this whole country has an immensely contradictory definition of heterosexuality. If I like penis, I'm gay. But if I don't like penis, I'm weird. There's some serious issues there. Evidently the secret nobody says is that "heterosexual" means "likes to look at men but doesn't do anything with them".

Never said I didn't understand why you don't want it there, just putting forward a basis for the contradictory stance, that it's ok if it is there. You're jumping to conclusions about people who are ok with a dick being around that's not theirs, ever been in a locker room? Were you crazy uncomfortable? Were you sure all the other "heteros" were checking you out?

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

You really have trouble reading.

That one I admit I mis-read. I believe you meant the part of my original post you took out only refuted one sentence of yours, when I thought you meant you only took out one sentence of my original post.

However, the part of my post you did take out stated that I don't need dick in my porn, when your going on about how if guys are ok with a dick in their porn, they must be obsessing over it. No gray area with you.

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

That is what is known as a lie.

Dodge.

Distortion of context.

Now you're just blatantly trolling.

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

My assertion is that you are more fond of penises than me, and I don't think there's anything inaccurate about that whatsoever.

I'm going to have to echo Doug on this one. If enjoying watching a guy fuck a girl makes me gay, sign me up.

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

"Gray area" is precisely what I'm talking about. Gray is a midpoint on a spectrum between black and white. Sexuality is generally defined by attraction to genders, and generally the extremes of that spectrum involve preferring one gender to the point of completely excluding the other. You are not an extreme, you are a gray area. This is what I'm saying.

Now we have some gray area, and I'm fine with being in that gray area if you have to make a destinction, but you have to be to one side or the other, which I also fine with, but I'm not fine with you using something as silly as what porn one tends to watch to assign other people a place within said gray area.