1268: When Doves Cry (A Period Piece)

[stulagu]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

I'm not saying you're sexually attracted to women, but you can see something appealing to them.

Maybe it is semantics but I don't see anything appealing in women. I can look at a woman's naked body just like I look at a landscape and say both are beautiful with the same amount of emotion and meaning.

When I see a couple have sex in tv or a movie, it makes me think of sex, which makes me think of sex with my husband, which makes me want sex. If a guy sees someone's penis and thinks about sex which them makes him want to have sex, how does that make him gay? or bi?

...Also, what Doug said...

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by stulagu

When I see a couple have sex in tv or a movie, it makes me think of sex, which makes me think of sex with my husband, which makes me want sex. If a guy sees someone's penis and thinks about sex which them makes him want to have sex, how does that make him gay? or bi?

If a guy watches gay porn, sees penises, thinks of sex, and gets hard, is he gay?

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

Wrong, it does lots of things.

I'm pretty sure I could put a ton of things in the background of your porn that would make you not want to watch it.

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

I'm going off the fact that, I believe you said, you only watch girl/girl porn, so in that case you have to be the watcher, third-person. If your fantasies involve you getting involved, all very good, but then that would make it a first-person experience, hence my statement. Not really sure what gymnastics you're talking about.

Holy fuck dude. I said this the first time, the second time, and now a third time: a third person view of YOURSELF. Also, you're abusing the word. If I watch two chicks making out in real life, that's first person. If I think about watching two chicks making out, that's first person still. And if I watch porn of two chicks making out, I am still seeing two chicks making out from a first person view: my own. None of my fantasies ever involve seeing myself other than from my own eyes. Porn that isn't from the first-person viewpoint of the dude is not analogous to fantasies in your head unless your fantasies involve viewing yourself from a detached vantagepoint.

You're using the word to mean third-person view of the participants, but I used it in relation to yourself.

You're either willfully not reading what I am saying or just being frustratingly stupid. I cannot believe I have had to explain this again.

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

How are you telling people what their fantasies are?

Do your fantasies involve third person views of yourself? If not, admit I was right about your fantasies.

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

Never said I didn't understand why you don't want it there, just putting forward a basis for the contradictory stance, that it's ok if it is there. You're jumping to conclusions about people who are ok with a dick being around that's not theirs, ever been in a locker room? Were you crazy uncomfortable? Were you sure all the other "heteros" were checking you out?

See, more insecurity and defensiveness. I am perfectly capable of looking at penises all day long. They don't bother me. But I don't want them in my porn. How in the world can you not see a distinction between those two things?

I mean, if you think sitting in front of a computer watching porn for sexual arousal with your dick in your hand is the same situation as looking at penises in a locker room, I think you're illustrating my point.

You refuse to acknowledge the meaning of the words "sexually repulsed by". It means I will lose my erection because of dudes. Not that I'm uncomfortable, or can't look at them, or have weird thoughts if I look at them. They ruin my porn and I'm not compelled to jerk off while I'm looking at them.

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

However, the part of my post you did take out stated that I don't need dick in my porn, when your going on about how if guys are ok with a dick in their porn, they must be obsessing over it. No gray area with you.

Didn't say obsessing over it. No reading with you.

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

Now you're just blatantly trolling.

It really is shocking how defensive you are. Let me break this down for you, because apparently I have to say something several times and explicitly:

You can't claim that you find men sexually repulsive if you like having them in your porn. Do you know what repulsive means? If you're not bothered by dudes being in porn, they're sexually neutral. Not arousing, but not turning you off. If you like them being there, that's attraction. Repulsive means you do not want them there, which is not what you've ever said.

Saying that you find a lot of women sexually repulsive is a dodge because it is immaterial to the discussion. You're just offering up nonsense that has nothing to do with anything.

The distortion of context is like your locker room situation. You're just abusing and twisting the word I used into a different context. I'm not saying I vomit when I see a penis. In your head, either people vomit when they see a penis or they're fine with it in their porn. There's just those two, "no gray area with you". Surely if I don't want it in my porn, I must have some sort of other issues with it because not wanting to see dudes in my porn is just irrational.

Trying to say I'm trolling is just absurd. You're too frustrating to talk to to be any fun.

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

I'm going to have to echo Doug on this one. If enjoying watching a guy fuck a girl makes me gay, sign me up.

See, you can't acknowledge what I'm saying. I never said you're completely hetero or completely gay. I'm not shoving you to one extreme or the other. You're trying to define things with as little specificity as possible.

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

Now we have some gray area, and I'm fine with being in that gray area if you have to make a destinction, but you have to be to one side or the other, which I also fine with, but I'm not fine with you using something as silly as what porn one tends to watch to assign other people a place within said gray area.

Oh yes, it's quite silly, figuring out what sexually arouses people based on what they jerk off to. That's just ridiculous.

Originally Posted by hayroob

I suspect we're butting heads because we're addressing different issues:

I love women. Love 'Em. They're my favorite thing in the world.

I find absolutely nothing about the male form arousing. Nothing.

These two facts make me, no gray about it, heterosexual.

However I enjoy watching a man have sex with a woman. Love it. It's tops. I don't want to see that dude by himself. I don't need a dude. My imagination isn't broken.

I just love watching people fuck.

You don't (at least when a dick is involved) and that's totally cool, not trying to convince you otherwise, but it's got nothing to do with how heterosexual you are.

Okay, this is always what it comes down to: we don't have a word for being sexually repulsed by dudes. It's odd to me that for a culture that has so many ways of describing sexuality, we refuse to define a word for this. Male heterosexual culture seems to imply that heterosexuality includes a sexual repulsion to dudes, but that never is the case when you talk about this subject.

But I don't really understand how a lack of attraction doesn't equal repulsion. I don't have sex with men because they are sexually repulsive. Everything I don't have sex with is sexually repulsive to me. Peanut butter is sexually neutral to me. I'd put my dick in a jar of peanut butter. It just strikes me as odd that so many straight guys will get in bed with chicks they aren't really attracted to just because it'll make their dick feel good, but guys that are sexually neutral towards guys will never get in bed with a guy just because it'll make their dick feel good.

[Medium Brumski]

Obviously at this point we're not going to change anyone's mind, and you're getting so into the minutiae of different posts of a thread that has been going on for days I can't keep up with you. Maybe after I've had a little more forums experience.

Also, what Doug said.

[stulagu]

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

Also, what Doug said.

I think this will just be the answer from now on

And I think a guy can watch gay porn and get aroused and not be gay. Same for girls. Just like a guy can like having his ass played with and not be gay. Just like a gay guy could NOT want something in his ass and still be gay. Just like a lesbian might want to strap on and still be gay.

Those situations aren't for everyone, but they are all possibilities.

To each their own, stop talking in 100%s and you won't get people arguing back so much.

Gray area doesn't mean right in the middle of black and white. There can be white with just a hint of black making just a tad bit of gray...gray area means the whole HUGE spectrum between black and white, not just right in the middle.

[Junkenstein]

You people completely spun around the original points. The starting idea was how flat the general idea of straight sexuality is.

I'm PRO-experimentation, strap-ons and bi-sexuality and i think that most modern pornography relies too much on a black&white idea of sex where men are aggressive pigs and more often than not, i'm regarded as a weirdo for that.

I get that the redhead is doing it on purpose because she thinks i'm a racist homophobe but i expected better from the rest of you.

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

Obviously at this point we're not going to change anyone's mind, and you're getting so into the minutiae of different posts of a thread that has been going on for days I can't keep up with you. Maybe after I've had a little more forums experience.

Also, what Doug said.

It would have just been easier if you read what I said the first time. I tried being clear with single words, but you didn't like that.

It's pretty disingenuous to dress up my having to explain every single thing I say to you as me just nitpicking. You fundamentally did not understand what I was saying and I was forced to repeat the entire point. Constantly. You try to say I am immutable, but it's hard for me to moved by a point that is a rebuttal to something I didn't say. In fact, if anybody is capable of that, they are retarded.

Originally Posted by stulagu

And I think a guy can watch gay porn and get aroused and not be gay. Same for girls. Just like a guy can like having his ass played with and not be gay.

Whether or not something goes in someone's ass is completely irrelevant to being gay. But if you watch gay porn and get hard, you'll probably like some dick if you try it.

Originally Posted by stulagu

Gray area doesn't mean right in the middle of black and white. There can be white with just a hint of black making just a tad bit of gray...gray area means the whole HUGE spectrum between black and white, not just right in the middle.

No shit. That's what I've been saying.

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

You people completely spun around the original points. The starting idea was how flat the general idea of straight sexuality is.

I'm PRO-experimentation, strap-ons and bi-sexuality and i think that most modern pornography relies too much on a black&white idea of sex where men are aggressive pigs and more often than not, i'm regarded as a weirdo for that.

I get that the redhead is doing it on purpose because she thinks i'm a racist homophobe but i expected better from the rest of you.

Yeah, I know that was what you were saying, but there's not really much I can say about that.

[Junkenstein]

I think we've been spookied, bob. if you get what i mean.

[Blitzgal]

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

You people completely spun around the original points. The starting idea was how flat the general idea of straight sexuality is.

I have to disagree with you there. The original comments were about one particular pornographer and whether the girls in those videos are actually "hot." It didn't turn into a discussion of guys looking at other dicks until you and Bob started in, with this:

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Which is why one should never watch porn with dudes in it.

It meandered around about the fluidity of sexuality and how it can't really be constrained into two simple categories, but you guys are the ones who just keep bringing it back to looking at dicks.

[Junkenstein]

Nope, wasnt what i was talking about.

i said that straight guys seem to be obsessed byu penis presence in pornography, mostly because they have a weird series of pickets in their ideas of sex, and that a man that is attracted to variety or simply finds the constant pseudo macho sword fighting of that type of stuff annoying, is frequently regarded as a weirdo.

Which smells to me like a form of over-inhibited repression, and over compensating machismo that means closeted gayness.

That was my point and i stand by it, Spooky Party.

[Cretaceous Bob]

Well the dicks point became the discussion because there's crickets from most straight males about the incredible wonders of lesbian porn, but they'll come out of the woodwork to maintain how straight their dick watching is.

Believe me you, I'd've preferred this thread just be about how fucking awesome Viv Thomas's lesbian films are, but, as this thread has shown, I am the outlier.