1495: The Loopdy-Doos

[Curt]

Originally Posted by astrokahn

As for presidential elections, shouldn't we really be saying "Wow, these candidates are so smart, so aware of what's going on, and have such amazing character and strength that I can't decide because they are all so good?" For fuck's sake we're supposed to be choosing the person who is going to represent and lead the most powerful country in the world. It's such a joke. I can't see how anyone can listen to these morons and then feel good about voting for any of them.

I can understand the argument. But it doesn't hold water. "I hate the candidates they give us." There isn't some omnipotent committee that decides who runs for office. They come from the caucuses and primaries of the respective parties. This issue isn't with who we have to vote for in the general election but with selecting better candidates in the first place which can only be done if you get involved in the process earlier. Granted the virtual 'money primary' that precedes NH and IA can kill a candidate well before any votes are cast but that just means that you can't wait until votes are made to know the field.

This year we don't really get anyone on the Dem side challenging the president and we haven't had a strong contest there since Ed Kennedy primaried a weak Carter.

If you want to look at the Republican field there are some interesting people. Jon Huntsmen is not todays average Republican. He believes in science, fact and rule of law. Then you have Buddy Roemer, former Gov. of LA, who is a far more traditional Republican. Think Bob Dole(fiscal balance) not George Bush Jr/Sr(retarded tax cuts). Roemer has been very supportive of OWS and won't take contributions over $100 dollars.

I still need to check into the rules for NY but I may switch affiliation for the primary just to put some support behind either of these guys.

America has become a far less homogenous place since Kennedy and Eisenhower. Finding someone who can be the representative of a large group of Americans beliefs on a whole is damn near impossible. Settling for may mean settling down with someone who you disagree with in some cases.

When people say they won't vote because it just encourages the assholes I can see the point but what are you going to do to actually change things?

The voting is worthless crowd seems to forget that there are state/county/city elections that affect their lives just as much as anything Federal. OH voters just struck down the anti-labor laws enacted there and MS voters stopped a personhood amendment that would have greatly affected reproductive rights. Both important issues that people voted on and made a real difference in a lot of peoples lives.

If you're just going to say we can't change anything then you're a pretty worthless person (and stupid(let the insults in my direction begin!)) and you should really take yourself out the gene pool.

Nothing is too big or powerful to change. These are all human institutions which can change.

PS astrokahn, you're pretty hot.

[indianprincess]

To reference something boy Knefel mentioned, Keystone XL Pipeline hasn't been completely stopped, merely deferred for review (after the election, 2012). I'm not too certain about Obama's platform but I know Prime Minister Stephen Harper pops 100 boners every time the Pipeline is mentioned. There's just something about the bulldozing through communities, poisoning of pristine lakes and drinking water, increasing carbon emissions, etc. that makes that man hard.

[Grampoo]

I don't think everybody has to agree with the occupy wall street folks, but I do feel that some of the folks have been clear in what their gripe is. I'm not at all trying to pick a forum fight with my favorite show-hosts, but I was trying to criticize how they originally stated their problem with Occupy W St... then they had it explained numerous times, and still they seemed to just echo the same problem, seeming to never have absorbed the explanations, or have their opinions move one inch on the issue that the Occupy folks had no clear message. Honestly, the occupy people I've met who have single-minded, specific changes (example: remove Federal Reserve) sound most kooky to me.

My Dad wrote this editorial (which was published in my local paper) and I thought it was good, though I'm sure not everyone would agree... and why should they. But, I'm proud of my Dad, and I think he might even add a bit of clarity for those who are unclear on what the movement is, or why it might be meaningful.

[astrokahn]

Originally Posted by Curt

If you're just going to say we can't change anything then you're a pretty worthless person (and stupid(let the insults in my direction begin!)) and you should really take yourself out the gene pool.

Nothing is too big or powerful to change. These are all human institutions which can change.

PS astrokahn, you're pretty hot.

I personally don't say that we can't change things.

For me, it started with researching and learning a lot that was outside mainstream media and that opened me to initially feeling like "oh shit we are fucked!" I think that inserting yourself into politics is one way to approach that depressing realization, and in your own way attempt to change things.

I decided on a different route, because for me the insanity that is politics in our country where it seems that everything is rigged, everything is decided by multi-billion dollar corporations and every politico is literally bought, I can't manage to involve my heart and brain in that anymore without wanting to kill myself or crawl into a hole until all the oil runs out, all the animals are dead and cannibalism has left us half crazy and almost extinct. That machine might be too big to change. (I voted for that.)

What I decided long ago was to attempt in whatever way possible to, god this sounds so cheezy, ... be the change. You can't just expect shit to change around you, you have to actually change too. Half the reason everything's all fucked up is because 7 billion people make hundreds of shitty choices every day. So maybe my life changes won't make a massive difference, but at least it's a difference I can actually see and have some power over. That and I am raising a kickass kid who will raise her own kickass kids-- assuming there is any drinking water left for them that isn't soaked in shit and piss, or maybe she will be smart enough to not breed. Clearly I wasn't.

PS thank you

[lizsquiz]

Originally Posted by DaveNJ

No, the Knefels explained their impressions and individual sentiments. They ascribed motivations to a larger entity that I have yet to see demonstrated by that group.

For example: the issue of corporate lobbying. They dislike it, and want corporations to do different things. At the same time, though, these protesters are using goods produced by corporations, and are functioning in the one country in the world that derives the largest benefits from corporate wealth, which they also happen to benefit from.

Using a large group to tackle several problems is very different than a large group getting together and saying "shit's fucked up". That's what OWS is doing.

They're taking themselves out of the realm of criticism by not taking definitive positions. As such, they've opened themselves up to a different type of critique: excess vagueness and a lack of commitment to action.

Seriously, can you explain why the Knefels brought up "Stop and Frisk"?

I have no clue what police frisking policies have to do with Wall Street.

Yeah, I have to say the "Stop and Frisk" argument and the whole police brutality thing did confuse me. Doesn't seem to have anything to do with the Occupy Wall Street movement - well, I mean, I'm sure you can trace back through a series of steps and people to the 1% and blame it all on them and their corporate greed, but it's not really about that, is it?

Seems like there's a lot of causes jumping on a bandwagon that was initially about corporate greed and inequalities and injustice in the financial system which are perpetuating the problem and widening the poverty gap. So to have no demands, which I think is sort of okay in principle, in reality at some point in time, without a specific demand which relates to the whole purpose of originally being there, I can't see the movement really lasting. Sure, camp out and raise awareness of a problem. But who's going to stay camped out just raising awareness forever? Surely at some point you want to start having solutions.

[RealEmotionX]

Would totally date John.

[Alekseyev]

Cant believe someone would dump Molly Knefel. She's gorgeous and very charming + intelligent

[albi]

Originally Posted by invader

The Knefels did the best job so far at explaining the occupy Wall Street and why they are down there. Excellent show.

Agreed. It was a really great show and painted a detailed picture of what’s actually happening, and what’s trying to be achieved. Awesome!

[DJ Trashy]

fuck this

[DWarrior]

HBO will have a kickass show about the late '00s-early '10s 20 years from now, I can't wait.