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Old 08-22-2018, 05:04 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SpareBen View Post
But the disproving link was already addressed in my initial wikipedia link.
One of the first things taught at uni is that Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Find some appropriate evidence, please.
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Old 08-22-2018, 11:02 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Perhaps you all know the story of Doubting Thomas.

This only makes Ben’s faith stronger.
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Old 08-22-2018, 01:04 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
arguing a point isn't professing a belief. and, if you wanna get realz, the trinity as One is a basic tenet of Christianity and if you can't get behind that, maybe ya ought to be lookin' at the plank in ya own eye, bruh.
Never claimed to be Christian - my original post embraced several faiths - Keith jumped on the Jesus mention & put me on the defensive.

Anyway, this is my last post on the subject. If my tone became disrespectful, I apologize. Hope we all find what we're looking for.
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Old 08-22-2018, 01:27 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I doubt it, so, when you go on, I won't take it as a lie.

Plus it doesn't matter if a lie is a sin anyway, since Jesus Himself has nothing to do with the 10 Commandments.

This guy...
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:30 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SpareBen View Post
Your Joshua point is mind-blowing.

I retract my claim to disprove. There's a lot of "in me" and "in you" on that link, and it has been interpreted in many ways. My original point stands. I wrote that Jesus didn't claim to be God. Keith said he absolutely did. Keith the the one whose point cannot be proven. But hey, I've gotten atheists to argue in favor of Jesus being God. My work here is done.

Atheists are trying to correct a claim that you made about Jesus which goes against almost all Christian theology and scripture. Just because we have better theological understanding than you doesn't mean we believe it ourselves. Part of the reason so many people are 'strong' atheists (as opposed to someone who grew up not attending church) is that we *did* study all this from the inside. Our studies finally convinced us it's all bullshit.

This link (not that you'll read it) has a lot of good detail on how and why Jesus claimed to be God, and why all who heard him speak understood that this is what he was claiming. I copied a lot of scripture, but I'll just use one example since you probably aren't reading this thread any more...

Is Jesus God?

John 5:17-18

17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. (ESV)

More importantly, while you may not find Jesus being quoted as directly, explicitly saying "I am God" neither will you find him saying "No, I'm not God!" in spite of all the people around him coming to that conclusion. There is more on that topic in the link above.

Having said all that, no, I don't believe that most of this is true, starting with Jesus being an actual historical person.

Having said ALL THAT - this is just what is in the Bible. If you look outside the Bible, and if you forensically analyze all the early scripture, ONLY THEN can you start to say that Jesus didn't claim to be God. But at that point you're outside of any sort of traditional Christianity, so maybe that is where Spare Ben is coming from? No idea.

The Jesus Seminar did a lot of work in this area - one of their conclusions is this:

"Eighty-two percent of the words ascribed to Jesus in the gospels were not actually spoken by him, according to the Jesus Seminar."

This is some fascinating reading, if you're into the academic angle and forensics and shit:
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Old 09-14-2018, 11:52 AM   #56 (permalink)
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I read The Evolution of God and I'm over the Jesus thing. Guess I'll have to replace religion with ice cream. Much love to you all. And Keith, here's your apology:

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