God Hates Fags

[spooky]

Originally Posted by BrownEyedBtch

I'm a hypocrite because I believe children should understand the world contains both things you appreciate and things you don't? I'm a hypocrite because I believe sheltering children can do more damage than showing them what the world has? I'm a hypocrite because I think it's okay to believe, but I don't think it's okay to take your own personal belief as fact and assume everyone else is wrong because they don't subscribe to your facts? You happen to be the person who considers his belief fact and judges those who disagree. I am not.

How much time should I devote to discourse with you, knowing from ample past experience it will fall on deaf ears?

There is no point in pointing it out to you, either. Past experience has taught me that you have your views which you know are right, and won't allow pesky things like facts or logic to dissuade you. Take some solace, though, your beliefs are shared by many, as is your expression of them. You are rigidly open minded, completely willing to be accepting of another's freedom of religion, if they would only alter some minor specifics of their beliefs. I bet you support gay marriage, too, you are a very good person by your own definition.

Oh, caveats.

[BrownEyedBtch]

Thank you, Spooky. I appreciate having you respect my open mindedness. Nothing falls on deaf ears. Everything is given consideration, then is either accepted or rejected for a variety of reasons. Religion is not fact, it is belief. I respect the beliefs others have and their comfort in believing what they do. I don't have to agree with it to respect it. My discomfort comes when belief is pressed on me as fact. Not all who have such conviction have such judgment against others. The ones who harshly judge others are the ones who make the news or have documentaries on their lives. I will likely never be the subject of a documentary because I do not judge. I am no one to cast a stone at another. I am okay with that.

Does it bother you that I cannot get all riled up about those who do not share my beliefs? Are you dumbfounded by the fact that I can have such differing opinions without having to assign fault or praise to one side or the other? It does not bother me because I cannot control what others think or do. Knowing it is out of my control, it is a waste of my time. Therefore, I have no problems saying I wish something were a certain way, but I understand that they are not.

[spooky]

lol

One day I will learn not to obfuscate my funnies when dealing with certain types of people.

define: oxymoron

[Junkenstein]

Wow, there was a hint of an interesting discussion here but it almost immediately turned into a fight. I know that's how it works, but it doesnt cease to dishearten me...

[BrownEyedBtch]

Nah, it takes two to fight. I was ready for an interesting discussion too. Would you like to have one?

[Junkenstein]

Of course i am. But i like spooky's views. I dont know why he has to turn to assault mode so quickly, though.

Using one of his points: he made the example of an atheist person forcing her children to be outside from christmas, easter, etc.

it sounds strange to me. I was raised strictly catholic and i have awful memories of any religious holiday, exactly because both my parents were extremely religious. Christmas was all about going to never-ending mass prayers, same with easter. And in both the occasions, there was even more strict discipline and unhappiness. I started having fun when i left my family, and separated religion and activities that are usually linked to it.

If and when i'll have kids, even if i'm an atheist i will deinitely let them celebrate everything they want. even Halloween, which the pope has called a "disgusting pagan celebration". I guess that things boil down to how black your own heart is and how much you're going to take it out on your kids, either through religion or atheism.

Either that or i'm just an asshole piece of shit who should not ever breed. Oh well.

[Station]

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

Wow, there was a hint of an interesting discussion here but it almost immediately turned into a fight. I know that's how it works, but it doesnt cease to dishearten me...

I'm with you on that one. I was hoping you and I would balloon our discussion into one about group behavior and control, seemed like that's where we were sort of headed. Key words being were headed until the train went off the tracks and into an orphanage full of innocent babies.

[marina]

I haven't seen the documentary, but everybody teaches their kids unhelpful bullshit. It's just each person's individual responsibility to realize how retarded their parents were and try to be less like them in that respect. Some people are more retarded than others, some people damage their children more than others.

The I thought about with Jesus Camp is, if that child wants to grow up to be exactly like their parents, they've got a wonderful start, they'll be really successful at it. But if that child wants to grow up to be like me, they're doing horribly. Personally, I'd rather be like me than that kids parents, but I'm sure they feel the same way about me.

[Junkenstein]

Originally Posted by Station

I'm with you on that one. I was hoping you and I would balloon our discussion into one about group behavior and control, seemed like that's where we were sort of headed. Key words being were headed until the train went off the tracks and into an orphanage full of innocent babies.

Oh that still could work. Listening to Maron's podcast has made my "people are slaves and i'm dissatisfied and angry" factor up to 11.

If you want to see it under that angle, religion, atheism, politics or even sports are all ways to give people a safe way to have mind-numbing and re-assuring rituals. I think that, for a lot of people, even the KATG community has that edge to it. That's why the whole "cult" thing that came out when Mike did the branding was funny but not so far from the truth. Some listeners feel void and broken, betrayed by usual groups, and they find a shelter in the KATG community, they find somebody that tells them ways to think and confront day to day issues.

It's weird, but if you strip the issue to bare bones, KATG has aspects of an organized religion with leaders (two), evil (Dane Cook and smug assholes), rituals (the meetups), prayers and catchphrases. Even clothing.

I think that the show gives the same type of satisfaction to some that praying and saying "god hates whatever" gives to others.

It's borderline impossible to be absolutely off of any form of mass ritual. It's something that drives you to depression, even if you think that you have an iron will.

Tough one. BTW, babies arent innocent.

[BrownEyedBtch]

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

Of course i am. But i like spooky's views. I dont know why he has to turn to assault mode so quickly, though.

Using one of his points: he made the example of an atheist person forcing her children to be outside from christmas, easter, etc.

it sounds strange to me. I was raised strictly catholic and i have awful memories of any religious holiday, exactly because both my parents were extremely religious. Christmas was all about going to never-ending mass prayers, same with easter. And in both the occasions, there was even more strict discipline and unhappiness. I started having fun when i left my family, and separated religion and activities that are usually linked to it.

If and when i'll have kids, even if i'm an atheist i will deinitely let them celebrate everything they want. even Halloween, which the pope has called a "disgusting pagan celebration". I guess that things boil down to how black your own heart is and how much you're going to take it out on your kids, either through religion or atheism.

Either that or i'm just an asshole piece of shit who should not ever breed. Oh well.

I think kids believing in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc. doesn't do any harm to kids because kids like make believe, and they like fantasy worlds. These things are on their level. As kids get older, they learn these things are the work of their parents who were just trying to make their childhood special. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving kids something fun to believe in as children. It brings them joy and excitement. Few parents can resist the look their children get on their faces on Christmas morning when they see what "Santa" brought for them. A healthy imagination is a blessing.

I was not raised a hardcore religious person, and always had my creativity nurtured. I don't know what it means to spend my life in church because my mother always tried to expose us to our options and let us decide which one we wanted to explore. That's where my open-mindedness comes from. I hope to pass that open-mindedness along to my children someday. She did a good job of showing us what options there were, what each option had to offer, and potential consequences and benefits of each option. I love not being a judgmental person. I am not an angry person.

And for the record, I say it again: I do not object to parents teaching their kids about religion. I object to teaching belief as fact and judging others who do not share your beliefs.

I stop reading Spooky's points as soon as he decides someone could not possibly be intelligent enough to agree with him, and I find that unfortunate. I see a lot of his points, but because I don't worship everything he says, I am the idiot. If that's how he wants to live his life, fine. As I wrote to him, I am not one who needs to judge or win to be satisfied.