Isreal spends about $1625 per person on weapons, USA only $1196

[Ozman]

Originally Posted by jeffdrafttech

$140-billion would pay every college student $10,000 toward tuition for a year (14Million college Students last year). that's plenty for most state schools. Iraq is at nearly 400-Billion, almost 100-Billion in the last year. We already spend more per-capita than canada on health care. How much more could it take?

I am against irresponsible spending. I think, beyond emergency situations, we should stick to a balanced budget. I also believe if we are going to spend ourselves into poverty, we should have something to show for it (healthy educated population anyone?). Our president chose an unwinnable war. I think he could have chosen better.

He didn't choose an unwinnable war. He simply chose to fight a winnable war in an unwinnable way.

I agree that spending beyond our means is untimately the right solution. But taking savings and applying it to university educations is completely ludicrous. If the federal government begins funding higher eduction, then the standards will eventually have to be lowered to be more "inclusive." That will lead to the same disastrous "dumbing down" that we have seen in the public school system now. My property taxes are currently paying for schools that I don't use, don't endorse, and don't have any confidence in to either teach my kids or keep them safe.

Consequently, I am paying property taxes with money that has already had income taxes deducted, then using more of my taxed income to pay for the schools that my children attend that the government has no hold on.

[jeffdrafttech]

Originally Posted by spooky

you cant barrow or tax your way to prosperity. and i think we have learned that government run health care is inferior to private health care. with our health scores being so high compared to the best nations on earth(even the all vanilla, all one culture nations), obviously it would be stupid to cripple the american economy for a percentage point or two gain. as far as government paid college, perhaps we should focus on K-12, where we have an obvious weakness, before we start expanding the problem.

do the left wing nutbags really think universal health care in america is a good idea?




whats that, a 1.7% difference in HDI? and you pay 40% of your money for it? and whats the immigration and minorities like in those countries? the cultural diversity...

critical thinking? start with the obvious stuff first.

My reply about borrowing to spend money on healthcare was to show the absurdity of sayng that we should borrow as much as we want, because no one would ever "call us on it". a nationwide group health plan isnt a bad idea. Opt in, or don't. I don't think we should go further in debt to do either: education or healthcare.

I really don't think we should go into debt to make war. It would be different if we were attacked, but we attacked another country and borrowed the money to make it possible so that no one had to pay more taxes (and wealthy Americans are paying less tax now than they did before the "war on terror"). the entire justification for war was 9/11/01 and this administration is loosing ground in Afghanistan to keep the bullshit in Iraq going. We're paying about 30,000 private-army troops earning six figure salaries in Iraq because no one else wants to fight it.

Do you not see that the politicians you defend, day after day, are spending us beyond broke? They have you ranting about the cost of social programs while they spend our future on the military industrial complex!

I mostly agree with you on education. government is bad at it. We have gone 'round about this before. I do believe that government should fund, at the very least, k-12 education. If there is a place for complete socialism, it lies with children. If poor children don't have the same educational opportunity as luckier children, there is almost no potential for advancement in the modern world. the voucher idea seems to work well. I have no idea why anyone would be against it. If you are against state funding of education, I think you have a screw loose. "Everyone for himself" education is not far from having a caste system.

[Ozman]

Originally Posted by jeffdrafttech

I mostly agree with you on education. government is bad at it. We have gone 'round about this before. I do believe that government should fund, at the very least, k-12 education. If there is a place for complete socialism, it lies with children. If poor children don't have the same educational opportunity as luckier children, there is almost no potential for advancement in the modern world. the voucher idea seems to work well. I have no idea why anyone would be against it. If you are against state funding of education, I think you have a screw loose. "Everyone for himself" education is not far from having a caste system.

I am not against the voucher system, or any other system that allows me the choice of where to educate my child without have to pay twice (once by tax, once out of pocket). Another that might work equally well is a public system where schools aren't assigned funding until enrollment is completed, and student transfers are unblocked. This way, the money follows the student instead of the student forced to go where the money is already assigned. It would highlight low-performing schools and they would either have to shut down or raise their teaching capabilities to match societal expectations.

[paul_r]

Originally Posted by spooky

you cant barrow or tax your way to prosperity. and i think we have learned that government run health care is inferior to private health care. with our health scores being so high compared to the best nations on earth(even the all vanilla, all one culture nations), obviously it would be stupid to cripple the american economy for a percentage point or two gain. as far as government paid college, perhaps we should focus on K-12, where we have an obvious weakness, before we start expanding the problem.

do the left wing nutbags really think universal health care in america is a good idea?

what health scores?

"We're Number Two: Canada Has as Good or Better Health Care than the U.S."
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?cha...99BF24&ref=rss

[Bebe]

Originally Posted by spooky

i think we have learned that government run health care is inferior to private health care.

I think that really needs to be qualified. Most western countries in the world have something close to free universal basic healthcare and education, except the US. And for most of those countries, the healthcare and education is good. I have never personally paid for any hospital care or for my own or my children's education, and we have all had very good healthcare and education. It can and does work all over the world.

Look at who is 1-7 on the HDI and then look at those country's policy on health, education and taxation. They are the most cohesive societies with the least crime and poverty. I guess it is all about what you want as a society (not just what you want). I want to be in a healthy, well educated, equal and safe society. And I am very happy and comfortable to pay for all this through my taxes, as are the majority of people in my country.

But I also understand that many people do not agree with this view, and that is okay too. That is what elections are for. In my country 80-90% of eligible people vote, so democracy actually works here.