Sept 11 - does it still weird you out?

[Grapist]

Originally Posted by Bebe

Also, I am not being snide; I really want to know. Why are American's so focussed on this?

Indoctrination, 9/11 has been part of Bush's speeches since it happened, it's been used to justify starting an illegal war, taking away personal freedoms, and so on and so forth. To this day it is still referenced in presidential speeches. It has to be sensationalized so that people won't actually be able to see the truth.

Although the truth is so fucking obvious it is ridiculous.

[BrianAlt]

I was there, in the area. I saw the second plane fly into the building out my office window.

It still upsets me to think about it, to think about what I saw and the friends of mine that died that day.

Seven years later I no longer worry about what a plane flying over my head will do, but for the first couple of years I was.

I'm very happy that I can barely remember what Ground Zero smelled like.

I know why it bothers me, I can't speak for others.

[Badger]

That is frontline heaviness, Brianalt. Blimey. Sympathies to you, dude

[Bebe]

Originally Posted by BrianAlt

I was there, in the area. I saw the second plane fly into the building out my office window.

It still upsets me to think about it, to think about what I saw and the friends of mine that died that day.

Seven years later I no longer worry about what a plane flying over my head will do, but for the first couple of years I was.

I'm very happy that I can barely remember what Ground Zero smelled like.

I know why it bothers me, I can't speak for others.

So for you it's about the immediacy of the event. That makes sense.

[jeffdrafttech]

Originally Posted by Bebe

You know, thousands of Americans have died in Iraq since the war started.

And 150,000 Iraqis as a result of the conflict, many of them non-combatant civilians. Iraq lost more civilians in the original 2003 US invasion of Iraq, than died in the 9/11 attacks, which Iraq had nothing to do with.

Originally Posted by Bebe

People die senselessly ALL THE TIME. Genocide is committed all over the world all the time. More children die of malnourishment or dysentery than this every day. Why are these 4000-ish people so special?

Good question.

If you are outside of the US keep this in mind: Only half of us vote and only half of the voters, vote for the Republican party. When we elect our commander-in-chief, it isn't a popular vote, it is determined by the electoral college. In the electoral college, every state is given votes based on congress and senate seats (the senate thing gives less-populated states greater voting power). When a state goes 53% for Bush and 47% for Kerry, Bush gets 100% of the electors for that state. If a state contest isn't considered competitive most people won't vote. Almost no one votes for offices beyond the president and congressmen because there is almost no media coverage of smaller more regional races.

In a nutshell, half of the voters in the US feel like their vote doesn't matter because they live in a state with a majority of one party or the other. I think lots of Americans care about the humanitarian foreign issues, they just don't have enough faith in our system to go out and give their feelings a voice.

[Lambboy]

Originally Posted by Bebe

Also, I am not being snide; I really want to know. Why are American's so focussed on this?

I think there are many different answers to that question. But some of the main reasons are politicians and the media.


Since Sept. 12th politicians have been using it as a way to get what they want. From passing the patriot act to illegally spying on Americans. They like to use it as a scare tactic to rule the populace. When the people are scared you can get away with more. Since there was a war on Bush had a scandal damn near once a week. But he got away with it because everyone was scared.

And since Sept 12th the media has fanned the flames of fear. They are no longer just reporting the news. They make the news. They are no longer held accountable for false and misleading stories. As long as people are watching or reading they make money. Thats what it is about for them. For fucks sake more than 1/2 of Americans still think Iraq was responsible for 9/11.

It's still going on.

Right now the Republicans are running their campaign on a platform of fear. They are yelling at the top of their lungs "If you vote for Obama you will all DIE!!!!"

They have scared a lot of people into being afraid all the time and are offering to save them.

It's sad really.

Personally I am more afraid of any cop in America than I am of terrorism. The odds of one of them fucking up my life or ending it are unbelievably higher than a terrorist attack.

Every one jumped on Michelle Obama for saying that for the first time in her adult life she was proud of her country.

Right now I'm on the other end.

For the first time in my life I am ashamed of my country.

[Badger]

Do all normalish people in the US still have time for Giuliani? Or has he beaten 9/11 too far into the ground?

[Lambboy]

Originally Posted by Badger

Do all normalish people in the US still have time for Giuliani? Or has he beaten 9/11 too far into the ground?

Basically everyone I have talked to and I believe the media too, consider him a laughing point now.

[thepetek]

Originally Posted by Badger

Do all normalish people in the US still have time for Giuliani? Or has he beaten 9/11 too far into the ground?

If any American can be said to have had a good day on 9/11, it was Giuliani. His rep was going into the shitter before then. That day made NY'ers say, "Ah, maybe the guy is useful." He fucked it all up pretty quickly after that. Wanted to extend his term past the election, the details of his pal Kerik's shennanigans started coming out, people started asking why the emergency response center was in the Trade Center...

He made a good US Attorney. But that's just it. He was a prosecutor through and through.

[jeffdrafttech]

Originally Posted by Bebe

You know, thousands of Americans have died in Iraq since the war started. People die senselessly ALL THE TIME. Genocide is committed all over the world all the time. More children die of malnourishment or dysentery than this every day. Why are these 4000-ish people so special?

Originally Posted by Lambboy

I think there are many different answers to that question. But some of the main reasons are politicians and the media.


Since Sept. 12th politicians have been using it as a way to get what they want. From passing the patriot act to illegally spying on Americans. They like to use it as a scare tactic to rule the populace. When the people are scared you can get away with more. Since there was a war on Bush had a scandal damn near once a week. But he got away with it because everyone was scared.

And since Sept 12th the media has fanned the flames of fear. They are no longer just reporting the news. They make the news. They are no longer held accountable for false and misleading stories. As long as people are watching or reading they make money. Thats what it is about for them. For fucks sake more than 1/2 of Americans still think Iraq was responsible for 9/11.

It's still going on.

Right now the Republicans are running their campaign on a platform of fear. They are yelling at the top of their lungs "If you vote for Obama you will all DIE!!!!"

They have scared a lot of people into being afraid all the time and are offering to save them.

It's sad really.

Personally I am more afraid of any cop in America than I am of terrorism. The odds of one of them fucking up my life or ending it are unbelievably higher than a terrorist attack.

Every one jumped on Michelle Obama for saying that for the first time in her adult life she was proud of her country.

Right now I'm on the other end.

For the first time in my life I am ashamed of my country.

Wow, great post.
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On the subject of the media:

Most all of the news in the US is also commercial. Special interest groups can pressure advertisers, and affect how news is reported.

Reporters go so far out of their way to not appear biased, they often report bullshit. If party a has idea a, and party b has idea b, both ideas will get equal time, even if one of the ideas is a blatant lie.

If network x reports that every scientist who disputes that global warming is caused by man is bought and paid for by the oil industry, they don't just lose oil-company ads. Those oil companies can call up their paid-for congressmen who will call up people like Limbaugh and O'reily, who tell their audience to boycott products advertised on x. That political machine writing letters to other network sponsors about supporting x's "biased" reporting will have a direct effect on how x reports stories in the future.

The american media don't report researched facts, they just present two arguments as being equally valid, even if one is full of lies (often, even if both are full of lies).