1031: Wordplay

[serial_x]

Originally Posted by truetimer

This Brad guy that was talking trash about KATG not been on pod cast alleys top 10 has gotta be eating his words, just checked and they are already 3rd.. Found it hilarious....

3rd, 4th AND 5th

[myq]

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

ADD: Listening to Myq dissecting cockney made me finally realize one thing: he is The Riddler. (and i cant wait for his damn cd to come out)!

Thanks! But foul language isn't going to make it come out any quicker.

Or will it? The Riddler strikes again!

(Fuck a shit dick.
Just in case it helps.)

Originally Posted by TimFromBoston

Great show, Myq's 41 minutes were sure worth it! It pays to listen live.

Thanks Tim! For your vocal, financial, and non-electronic support.

(Just to give credit where credit is due, in addition to donating the largest chunk online, he also came out to two of the four nights of shows I did in Boston this past weekend.)

I'm glad it pays to listen live. And by "it" I mean "Tim."

Thanks sincerely to Tim and everyone who came out, donated, or otherwise just watched and enjoyed.

Originally Posted by Sokkratez

I was thinking along similar lines. Most people probably don't know the etymology of most colloquialisms they use day-to-day. We just pick this stuff up through the context of common usage, though I'd wager that the etymology of phrases used in America, on average, make a lot more sense than that of cockney words.

It's possible, but I'd imagine we have a skewed view of what makes sense in American English because we're using the words and phrases all the time and have forgotten that they don't necessarily make any literal sense.

Calling someone hot a fox?
Calling someone ugly a dog? (When dogs and foxes aren't so different.)
Yelling "hot dog!" to express excitement? (When we just learned that dogs are the opposite of hot?)

Calling women birds? (I thought they were dogs or foxes.)
Saying something is for the birds? (But not meaning it's for women.)

Giving someone the cold shoulder?
Using elbow grease?
Talking out of your ass?

And these are just off the top of my head (and why is that where the first ideas come from... shouldn't it be from the part of my brain that's nearest to my mouth?).

Originally Posted by amadeus

about jesse joyce's criticism of keith's approach to stand up:

he seems to forget that keith has a show, has had a show and basically is / has been able to hone his craft and fine tune his stand up skills pretty much daily for years now.

it's like someone getting into fights every day on the street for years, being put into a ring once a year, against a trained fighter - steroid use aside, i think the scrapper would do pretty good. it might be a different approach to the same craft but should not be frowned upon by a seasoned fighter or in this case, comedian.

And to reiterate (and hopefully add some new insight to) my thoughts on this...

Firstly, I know that Keith is funny. The show is funny. He is funny when he performs live. And as he said on the show, if he doesn't claim to be a standup comedian, then no criticism can stand, pertaining to his "doing standup incorrectly" or whatever.

However, in the analogy of the scrapper vs. trained fighter, even the language you're using ("the scrapper would do PRETTY GOOD") supports my point, that if Keith (the scrapper) did some additional training, then he would be even more equipped to kick the audience's ass.

Sincerely, and again this is no knock on the work and prep and innate talent that Keith does and does and has, but there is a difference between doing standup in front of a live audience and practicing with no audience.

Even if it's just learning HOW big a laugh an audience is going to provide in response to a certain idea, to inform the performer's timing and pacing... That's something that simply can't be known otherwise.

So, I stand by my assertion that Keith's live shows could be even better than they are already (which is already good), if he engaged in the regular practices of standup comedy (which isn't necessarily what Keith is claiming he's doing, so we're all fine).

[Cretaceous Bob]

Keith and Chemda seemed irrationally resistant to Myq's suggestion to practice in front of an audience a bit before doing an April 15th show. I think Chemda is justifiably sensitive to such suggestions because of accusations toward Keith, and Keith only sees it as earning a pointless "I did the hard work" badge.

I think Keith would benefit from doing a little bit of pre-April 15th stand-up, and I'm not trying to lobby for an arbitrary notion of legitimacy. I'm not saying Keith isn't funny as it is. But I think it could help.

Why not try it one time? Just as an experiment. Maybe film the jokes you do beforehand and then compare them to the April 15th version. If they got better, everybody gets an even funnier Keith. If they didn't, K&C would then have something to point to when people like Myq say he should do a few shows in advance.

By the way, Downfall is fantastic

[myq]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Keith and Chemda seemed irrationally resistant to Myq's suggestion to practice in front of an audience a bit before doing an April 15th show. I think Chemda is justifiably sensitive to such suggestions because of accusations toward Keith, and Keith only sees it as earning a pointless "I did the hard work" badge.

I think Keith would benefit from doing a little bit of pre-April 15th stand-up, and I'm not trying to lobby for an arbitrary notion of legitimacy.

Same here. I hope that point comes across in what I've been saying.

I think there's something to be said for working hard, when you enjoy the work you're doing.
But hard work alone doesn't make someone a good standup, obviously.
There are plenty of people who work hard and accomplish little.
So, there are people who can claim the title of "standup comic" but not be as funny or successful as Keith, certainly.

But this isn't about an arbitrary title. It's about creating the best performance possible, and the ways in which that can happen.

I'm not saying Keith isn't funny as it is. But I think it could help.

Why not try it one time? Just as an experiment. Maybe film the jokes you do beforehand and then compare them to the April 15th version. If they got better, everybody gets an even funnier Keith. If they didn't, K&C would then have something to point to when people like Myq say he should do a few shows in advance.

Sounds perfect to me, it's a deal! (I have power of attorney to make these deals, right?)

Sincerely, I don't think that there's a perfect system to anything like this, or that everyone needs to work the same way, but I also certainly don't believe that it would be at all likely for the end result to be diminished in any way, and I think there's nearly every reason to believe that it would be augmented.

I'm not at all saying Keith HAS to do this, just that it could produce even more positive results than the positive results he produces the way he does.
And of course his process is totally up to him, and his reasons are his own, he can not leave his house ever if he wants.

[Junkenstein]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

I think Keith would benefit from doing a little bit of pre-April 15th stand-up, and I'm not trying to lobby for an arbitrary notion of legitimacy. I'm not saying Keith isn't funny as it is. But I think it could help.

Maybe i'm failing to re-collect, here, but didnt keith actually do stand-up almost regularly in clubs, before starting the show with Chemda? Maybe that taste of an heckling audience was more than enough foe him and he feels he soesnt want to take that on a regular basis (apparently a good percentage of a comedian's career is quite painful).

Plus, he's funny as hell but his jokes work much better when you know his style and his quirks. I bought his stand-up cd's on itunes before listening to the show, and i found him hilarious, but i got way more into his jokes afterwards. Actually "sue everybody" made me think he was incredibly funny and an incredible douche, at first.

ADD: Found on teh interwebz:

"Myq (pronounced, "Mike,") is easily one of the hardest working and most loved young comedians on the East Coast. In a world of uninspired Dane Cook-ery and lax audience standards, Myq exudes that precious comedy commodity: wit. " Take that! He definetely has power of decision on the issue!

[myq]

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

Maybe i'm failing to re-collect, here, but Didnt leith actually do stand-up almost regularly in clubs, before starting the show with Chemda? Maybe that taste of an heckling audience was more than enough foe him and he feels he soesnt want to take that on a regular basis (apparently a good percentage of a comedian's career is quite painful).

Plus, he's funny as hell but his jokes work much better when you know his style and his quirks.

Well, I imagine it would be quite probable that if he did plan to go out a few times before April 15, he would be able to get a few spots on shows where 1) some KATG listeners would come out, knowing his style, and thus giving him that potentially ideal familiarity, and 2) the audiences would be appreciative (for reason number one, and) because he could probably get on some nice shows that Ray Devito produces, maybe a Sacapuntas, or other places that people go to actually listen and enjoy comedy in a productive, respectful way...

Relatedly, the "heckling audience" and the "quite painful career of a comedian" are two stereotypes that certainly CAN be based in reality, but are much more overstated than occurring regularly in actual real life standup experience, for the most part.

I'd say the potentially most miserable part of one's career would be the beginning stages, when one doesn't have an act, or confidence, or performing experience, or really anything, which are the circumstances that can often bring the more harsh reactions that people fear. Keith has all of these things--jokes, confidence, experience, an established persona, everything necessary to optimize his time on stage...

Again, he obviously doesn't have to if he doesn't want to, but he'd certainly be able to find some welcoming environments if he did. (I'm certainly not advocating that he just open up the phone book of open mics, point to the one that's most horrible, show up, and hope for the best. I'm more talking, "hey, decent-sized audience of people who want to be here to see good comedy, we have a special guest here, a guy who's tooling up for his sixth or seventh one-hour comedy taping, a guy who speaks to thousands of people every day, a hilarious guy, Keith Malley!" A situation that could really benefit him and everyone, I say.)

Unrelatedly to this main topic, but related to the issue of pain being prevalent in a comedian's career, I honestly believe it's mostly dependent on the kind of person you are. There are plenty of civilians who are miserable most of the time. And there are plenty of comedians who aren't, because they love what they do (even though it might make plenty of other people miserable). And of course, there are miserable comedians. But I don't believe it's the comedy that necessarily makes them so.

Love,
a happy one

[myq]

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

ADD: Found on teh interwebz:

"Myq (pronounced, "Mike,") is easily one of the hardest working and most loved young comedians on the East Coast. In a world of uninspired Dane Cook-ery and lax audience standards, Myq exudes that precious comedy commodity: wit. " Take that! He definetely has power of decision on the issue!

PS Sorry I submitted my last statement before you had added this.
Thanks!

PPS Sorry I didn't add much with this.
Sorry!

PPPS Does it help if I add a third thing for no reason?
Oh well!
(See, I should have brought this out to a live audience to workshop before determining that it wasn't worth using on the forum.)

[Junkenstein]

Originally Posted by myq

Relatedly, the "heckling audience" and the "quite painful career of a comedian" are two stereotypes that certainly CAN be based in reality, but are much more overstated than occurring regularly in actual real life standup experience, for the most part.

That's interesting to hear. Actually it has always been quite strange to understand why many stand-up comedians i love and grew up with always berated the profession, and the audiences, but yet kept on doing it. I get that it's a passion and a talent but when you hear a man like Bill Hicks saying that comedy made him miserable, or Bocat Goldthwait, or David Cross (i've heard a couple of unofficial recordings of his gigs, and the cointempt and disgust he has for the whole stand-up situation are appalling. Yet i loved him.) i started having doubts.

I also have to say that my basic relationship with comedy is in recorded form. Italy has no stand-up scene, so i've heard my comedic idols always on cd. I never actually could see how the real scene is, and i base my views on what they say in interviews.

Popping my comedy cherry with Stanhope on friday.

Aside from that, good point, sir.

[myq]

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

That's interesting to hear. Actually it has always been quite strange to understand why many stand-up comedians i love and grew up with always berated the profession, and the audiences, but yet kept on doing it. I get that it's a passion and a talent but when you hear a man like Bill Hicks saying that comedy made him miserable, or Bocat Goldthwait, or David Cross (i've heard a couple of unofficial recordings of his gigs, and the cointempt and disgust he has for the whole stand-up situation are appalling. Yet i loved him.) i started having doubts.

I also have to say that my basic relationship with comedy is in recorded form. Italy has no stand-up scene, so i've heard my comedic idols always on cd. I never actually could see how the real scene is, and i base my views on what they say in interviews.

Popping my comedy cherry with Stanhope on friday.

Aside from that, good point, sir.

Thanks, great choice in Stanhope (is he in Italy, or are you somewhere else?), and then a more in-depth third thing that requires me leave the confines of this sentence.

Some of this will certainly be speculation, but I believe there are some people who become standup comedians, and then don't succeed as much as they may have liked, so begin to resent their lives which consist in just going through the same motions that once might have contained hope but now just continue to rub in the fact that they are not going to get farther than they are.
However, I'd say there are comedians who go through the same above scenario, but are perfectly happy and content to do the thing they love, constantly traveling to the same towns or boats or wherevers to do that thing as their job, support their family if they have one, live a life just thrilled to get to live a life thrilling others.
Different people react different ways.

The few people you've named are noteworthy--Hicks became much more appreciated after he died, I believe, though he was obviously doing just fine before that, with multiple Letterman appearances and great fame and appreciation in England. Of course, that might have contributed to his feeling like "why can't I be that appreciated in the country I LIVE in," if he did indeed feel that way. Knowing what he could have had and dying before it was realized as fully as it could have been, who knows?

David Cross and Bobcat are good examples of people who have demonstrated some disdain for doing standup and/or standup audiences, and I think they have both made fairly wise choices in not doing it as much. Bobcat rarely performs and focuses mostly on making movies now, which he enjoys doing. He stopped enjoying performing, so he stopped performing as much. Now he's doing it some more, and I believe he's enjoying it again at least a bit (from a recent interview I saw).

Are there other comedians you've heard express that they're miserable with their life, career, or audiences in comedy?
Because I do truly believe they're in the minority of successful comedians, and that as much as many may outwardly complain, they're truly enjoying what they do. (e.g. Lewis Black isn't really angry about everything, least of all his career, etc.)

[Junkenstein]

Stanhope will play a good bunch of dates in london, where i'll be for a good number of days. Like Hicks (Whom i see a bit like some kids see Hendrix or Jim Morrison, he was the first "reasoning humorist" i've heard. So my ideas about stand-up are kinda shaped after him), apparently he has a good following in the UK.

He's a good example. Apparently he's a very nice and mellow person off-stage but he often has some bitterness towards stand-up. Zak Galifianakis, in interviews, complained a lot about feeling "stuck" in the stand-up scene before getting his hollywood break with "Hangover". Jim Norton called it a "horrid Back-stabbing businness". Another guy that comes to my mind is Robert Kelly, who has the most angry and spiteful opinions about comedians, stand-up and other audiences, that i've ever heard (but probably he's just sort of an ass).

I guess somehow it's part of the act.

A note came to mi mind, about growing up as a stand-up fan here. A national comic hero in Italy is Daniele Luttazzi, a guy who makes a living by translating routines by Hicks, Carlin, Louie CK.. in italian and selling the as his own material. Joke theft on another level. That pissed me off incredibly when i was younger, as i seemed to be the only one who knew it, and no one seemed to care. Rough.