1066: In This Economy

[McNally]

I always thought it was interesting to see how people in NY were different on and off the show -- for instance, I always felt like a switch was being flipped in myself as soon as the prayer was said, and again once the show was done. Being in the spotlight made parts of my personality shift around in weird ways, and most guests I met seemed that way, in some capacity. But not Ray. Ray DeVito is exactly the same on the show or off. I always thought that was pretty awesome.

[Carruthers]

Originally Posted by Bucho

... (assuming you weren't being sarcastic).

Oh FFS.

Originally Posted by Bucho

... he has trouble understanding why other people don't have what it takes to simply apply themselves in the pursuit of knowledge or debating skills or cooking ability or a six-pack or whatever.

I'm so struck that we can claim to know what other people's mental states are from external observations. It's so, um, involving. And we're so often right (we know we are because some folk, so judged, will say things like "You got my number", or "Hey, you actually get me" or stuff like that). But they could be lying of course. Especially if your observation is favourable to them, even in a backhanded way.

On other occasions I'm rather inclined to the opposite viewpoint. How the hell can we claim to know what's really going on inside somebody's mind, unless we're leaping to conclusions and assuming it's the same as what's going on inside our own heads.

Originally Posted by Bucho

Keith has similar characteristics, ...

I'm going to steer clear of the internal workings of that head for a while, if you don't mind.

Originally Posted by Bucho

... I can't think why Chemda's joke about only being suitable for terrorist commercials didn't get more love on the show...

I know. It's not the only time she's come out with a hefty chunk of wry insight on appearance and societal context. I have to imagine those around her, whilst not actually laughing out loud, gazing in silent admiration instead.

[Bucho]

Originally Posted by McNally

I always thought it was interesting to see how people in NY were different on and off the show -- for instance, I always felt like a switch was being flipped in myself as soon as the prayer was said, and again once the show was done. Being in the spotlight made parts of my personality shift around in weird ways, and most guests I met seemed that way, in some capacity. But not Ray. Ray DeVito is exactly the same on the show or off. I always thought that was pretty awesome.

Right, it seems like it's not that Ray doesn't care about making people laugh, he just doesn't have that nervy edge that a lot of other comics have where they appear in some way to seek some kind of personal validation for their comic ability. And I don't even think that nervy edge is a bad thing for any kind of artist, that focused hunger is what drives a lot of really talented and funny people and I'm very glad for the way they entertain us.

And I think it's also part of why Keith said once that out of all his buddies and guests he related to Ray the best, because while Keith is hungry for success of his own he also seems like he has nearly cast-iron self-belief in his own talent and ability, it's a big part of his charisma. He's hungry for success but not desperate for it, and the way he deals with criticism so much better than so many other comics is the biggest indicator of that. Because criticism is less than just water off a duck's back to him, it's something to be dismissed, derided and squashed.

Originally Posted by Carruthers

Oh FFS.

Sure, I see now it wasn't necessary, but you know how this crazy internet shit works ... it was just in case.

Originally Posted by Carruthers

I'm so struck that we can claim to know what other people's mental states are from external observations. It's so, um, involving. And we're so often right (we know we are because some folk, so judged, will say things like "You got my number", or "Hey, you actually get me" or stuff like that). But they could be lying of course. Especially if your observation is favourable to them, even in a backhanded way.

On other occasions I'm rather inclined to the opposite viewpoint. How the hell can we claim to know what's really going on inside somebody's mind, unless we're leaping to conclusions and assuming it's the same as what's going on inside our own heads.

Yeah, I know we're talking about people I've never met but I've listened to them for four years and what must be about 1400 or 1500 hours worth of show + a bunch of dvds so I have to assume I get at least some things right. And I don't claim to be any kind of fancy psych major, I build houses for a living so maybe I'm talking way out of my own ass, but like you say - it's involving to observe relationship dynamics and try and get down to the whys.

I don't think I can ever be sure I can nail somebody 100% for the reasons you say above, but if I can understand them 80% it's usually plenty.

Originally Posted by Carruthers

I'm going to steer clear of the internal workings of that head for a while, if you don't mind.

Haha, sure thing. But Chemda's always said that understanding Keith is much easier than people assume, and that exact stuff we've been talking about - Keith's utter fearlessness with speaking his mind being paramount - means you can trust a lot of what you see and hear in him. In a similar way to how Ray doesn't appear to have a front, Keith doesn't either, he just says, "This is me - if you like it you're probably good, if you don't you're probably stupid and I'm not wasting my time and energy letting you affect me badly."

Originally Posted by Carruthers

I know. It's not the only time she's come out with a hefty chunk of wry insight on appearance and societal context. I have to imagine those around her, whilst not actually laughing out loud, gazing in silent admiration instead.

I have to imagine she actually thought of the joke some time during the day and already told Keith so even though it hit us fresh, it didn't for him. At least he didn't steal her joke for himself to use on the show like Chemda aways says he does though.

[Junkenstein]

Originally Posted by Bucho

Right, it seems like it's not that Ray doesn't care about making people laugh, he just doesn't have that nervy edge that a lot of other comics have where they appear in some way to seek some kind of personal validation for their comic ability. And I don't even think that nervy edge is a bad thing for any kind of artist, that focused hunger is what drives a lot of really talented and funny people and I'm very glad for the way they entertain us.

I think that Ray has the same self doubting, nervous, insecure traits tha t all comedians have but he deals with them in that wonderful mellow and ironic way. He was visibly tense when he was having an argument with Dan Allen on the show, but while Dan was almost imploding, Ray reacted with jokes and that maginificent laughter.

Comedian are artists. Artists are almost in their entirety insecure neurotic people who are desperately hungry for attention and extremely insecure about their craft. They deal bad with criticism (Yes, keith shrugs off most of criticism but he will dissect a review of his stand up and chew on it. Remember that ridiculous "comig of age" review on "serious comedy?". It pissed him off. He handled it well, but it pissed him off). And they are awkward about compliments too.

Ray has the same reactions, but they're more subtle and mellow than the others. In a similar, while different, way, i'm sure that Myq has his own awkward insecurities about his comedy, only he's a calm and collected guy and he rarely lets his insecurity surface.

[Junkenstein]

Originally Posted by Carruthers

I know. It's not the only time she's come out with a hefty chunk of wry insight on appearance and societal context. I have to imagine those around her, whilst not actually laughing out loud, gazing in silent admiration instead.

Chemda is as funny as Keith, smart, witty and with a gigantic intellect coupled with a big passionate heart. And she has one thing in which she ups keith, i think, she has incredible empathy but can be a cold cynical badass wehile keeping on her usual warm upbeat tone. I love her with all my small, rotten heart.

[Carruthers]

Originally Posted by Bucho

Sure, I see now it wasn't necessary, but you know how this crazy internet shit works ... it was just in case.

And it keeps happening - the FFS up there was not a complaint directed at you but a "yeah, yeah, we all know what that's about!".

But then I find out, having just listened to #1067 that the one who thought I was being sneeringly sarcastic (apologies to Mr Junkenstein - I won't let this go, will I?) is actually Spooky's - well, we don't know what to think now do we. The very person we're eulogising. How ironic is that? I feel like a clod now.

Originally Posted by Bucho

Yeah, I know we're talking about people I've never met but I've listened to them for four years and what must be about 1400 or 1500 hours worth of show + a bunch of dvds so I have to assume I get at least some things right.

Again, I wasn't criticising you - as I think you know (because of course I can read you like a monumental inscription [avoid cliché - avoid cliché]) - but my own peculiar delusion that I can read people better than anyone else. It's the last bit that's particularly ridiculous. Especially when all one has to go on is text. At least with Spooky we get intonational clues and the occasional facials.

[Carruthers]

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

Chemda is as funny as Keith, smart, witty and with a gigantic intellect coupled with a big passionate heart. And she has one thing in which she ups keith, i think, she has incredible empathy but can be a cold cynical badass wehile keeping on her usual warm upbeat tone. I love her with all my small, rotten heart.

Like way back to the 'millionaire' episode (which is bigger, the moon, an elephant, something else, mumble) where the contestant was described by the report as being "too stupid to live", she challenged that piece of unwarranted (meh, maybe) newspaper cruelty. Albeit with a "Well, she can breathe".

Please don't say "empathy" though. I'm a bit sensitive about that at the moment.

[Junkenstein]

Originally Posted by Carruthers

Please don't say "empathy" though. I'm a bit sensitive about that at the moment.

Dont be sarcastic.

[Carruthers]

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

Dont be sarcastic.

Rotter.

[raym]

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

I think that Ray has the same self doubting, nervous, insecure traits tha t all comedians have but he deals with them in that wonderful mellow and ironic way. He was visibly tense when he was having an argument with Dan Allen on the show, but while Dan was almost imploding, Ray reacted with jokes and that maginificent laughter.

Originally Posted by Bucho

Right, it seems like it's not that Ray doesn't care about making people laugh, he just doesn't have that nervy edge that a lot of other comics have where they appear in some way to seek some kind of personal validation for their comic ability. And I don't even think that nervy edge is a bad thing for any kind of artist, that focused hunger is what drives a lot of really talented and funny people and I'm very glad for the way they entertain us.

Originally Posted by McNally

I always thought it was interesting to see how people in NY were different on and off the show -- for instance, I always felt like a switch was being flipped in myself as soon as the prayer was said, and again once the show was done. Being in the spotlight made parts of my personality shift around in weird ways, and most guests I met seemed that way, in some capacity. But not Ray. Ray DeVito is exactly the same on the show or off. I always thought that was pretty awesome.

thanks you guys, and yes i try to be same the person. hope to meet you guys, mcnally is a cool guy if any of you ever have the chance to hang out w/ the guy, same can be said for brolo if you guys get to hang w/ him as well. hope to meet you guys in april or sometime down the road
Ray