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View Poll Results: What will come of Keith's Continental Airlines letter?
Good things 74 45.96%
No things 87 54.04%
Voters: 161. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-08-2011, 05:08 PM   #31 (permalink)
myq
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Originally Posted by stulagu View Post
I still have a problem with kiddie porn if it is animated. Can't it just be one of those things where everyone agrees that it is really wrong and shouldn't be depicted in any way? It seems to encourage the thought that it is ok.

I'm trying to think of a comparable and I can't. Even cruelty to animals isn't a crime if it is only animated. Child porn is just on its own level and even when animated is very wrong. WRONG, Myq Kaplan!
More questions... what about in art?

Like, you can have a movie where rape is depicted in graphic fashion, yes?
Or you could have paintings of horrible violent acts, right?

Obviously if you had a movie about a pedophile, I could see not wanting to have a real child even pretend to be molested or what have you (though certainly there are movies where children play abused children, and have to say and do things that, even though pretend, might be arguably traumatic), so in such situations, wouldn't an animated child rapee be the lesser of evils?

I mean, part of this question adds the element of "if child porn is illegal but child rape depiction for artistic purposes is not, where do you draw the line" (Keith: 'EVERYWHERE!'), and then we're back to the "I know porn when I see it" ambiguity...

Also, what about this: there's obviously not a lot of research done one what makes there be less pedophilic activity. But we know that there certainly are pedophiles who behave themselves, who keep their unfortunate genetic makeup to themselves, and live out their fantasies in fantasy only (Dan Savage calls them "gold star pedophiles"), and it sucks to be them, but it's great that they do what they do, and don't do what they don't. So my question here is, would having access to CGI child porn make there be more satisfiable gold-star pedos? Or would having that exist make them be more likely to go out looking for the real thing, gateway style? Again, I don't know if this is answerable with no real research able to be conducted ethically, but it seems to me that pedophiles are fantasizing anyway, having no porn available might make them go crazier and seek whatever they can, including real children, as opposed to having the potential outlet of animated fake stuff available.

Just horrible food for gross thought.


PS I am sexually attracted to adults. And arguments.
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:21 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I mean, part of this question adds the element of "if child porn is illegal but child rape depiction for artistic purposes is not, where do you draw the line" (Keith: 'EVERYWHERE!'), and then we're back to the "I know porn when I see it" ambiguity...
I don't want to speak for him, of course, that'd be akin to pedophilia itself, but I think Keith would say why do we need these movies and paintings with child porn in them? Which isn't really a terrible question. What are we (ostensibly non-pedophiles) getting out of that? But alternately, what good is completely ignoring it?
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:34 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Also, what about this: there's obviously not a lot of research done one what makes there be less pedophilic activity. But we know that there certainly are pedophiles who behave themselves, who keep their unfortunate genetic makeup to themselves, and live out their fantasies in fantasy only (Dan Savage calls them "gold star pedophiles"), and it sucks to be them, but it's great that they do what they do, and don't do what they don't. So my question here is, would having access to CGI child porn make there be more satisfiable gold-star pedos? Or would having that exist make them be more likely to go out looking for the real thing, gateway style? Again, I don't know if this is answerable with no real research able to be conducted ethically, but it seems to me that pedophiles are fantasizing anyway, having no porn available might make them go crazier and seek whatever they can, including real children, as opposed to having the potential outlet of animated fake stuff available.
This is the problem for me too. I can never work out if the cruelty free child porn should be allowed because it gives the gold star folk a victimless outlet or if it is a bad idea because it will promote their desires.

At the very least if the cruelty free porn can really take off it would mean that a whole bunch of kids would avoid a great deal unpleasantness in the making of kiddie porn.

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Old 03-08-2011, 05:53 PM   #34 (permalink)
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hmmm, I'm thinking sarcasm doesn't work for you....
It's the ESL language barrier.
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Old 03-08-2011, 08:25 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Huh, I thought I posted a correction but I was in a hurry so maybe I didn't save it.

I looked for the original article I *thought* I remembered reading about this book, but I can't find it. Everything I'm reading tonight says there are no photos in this book, which is likely why they depended on the decades-old obscenity laws to charge him with. I still think every private seller such as Amazon should refuse to sell such shit.

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Originally Posted by myq View Post
Also, what about this: there's obviously not a lot of research done one what makes there be less pedophilic activity. But we know that there certainly are pedophiles who behave themselves, who keep their unfortunate genetic makeup to themselves, and live out their fantasies in fantasy only (Dan Savage calls them "gold star pedophiles"), and it sucks to be them, but it's great that they do what they do, and don't do what they don't. So my question here is, would having access to CGI child porn make there be more satisfiable gold-star pedos? Or would having that exist make them be more likely to go out looking for the real thing, gateway style?

I think historically chemical castration has not been very effective in stopping these people from raping children, so I don't have much faith that providing something to get them aroused and riled up would do any better. And how do we know about these magical pedophiles who never act on their impulses? Again, if they participate in the underground market for kiddie porn, they are still abusing children simply by expanding the market for this product.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:42 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I think historically chemical castration has not been very effective in stopping these people from raping children, so I don't have much faith that providing something to get them aroused and riled up would do any better. And how do we know about these magical pedophiles who never act on their impulses? Again, if they participate in the underground market for kiddie porn, they are still abusing children simply by expanding the market for this product.
Magical Pedophiles...I smell a movie title!

The scene from Prince of Tides where the boy is raped is still burned into my brain and will never go away. And I saw it about 10 years ago. Children are innocents, which is why this is such a crime. We are absolutely destroying the spirit and soul of a child, and potentially creating a monster. It is why animal abuse is WAY more horrible than spousal abuse in my book, the animal has no control/though process about the situation. The spouse can at least get the hell out of there. And yes I realize this is a blanket statement, please don't pick it apart. In the purist sense it is true.

I think most studies have shown (and by this I mean Criminal Minds and Law and Order SVU) that pedofiles will eventually act on a human. That they may lie dormant for a while, but they will offend someday. And they will repeat. So why make CGI? This might take someone from a gold star offender to a full blown offender because it is easier to access and easier to spiral down into the sickness.

I do understand the fine line of showing a violent rape in a movie to evoke emotion, but porn is SO different from an artistic movie. No matter how much soft focus and storyline is involved, you're watching the movie to get off. That is the purpose.
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:05 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I believe I found the answer to Keith's airline problem, write a song! ...and have it go viral
It worked for some dude, he had a problem with United Airlines (they mishandled his $3500 guitar, on arrival to his destination he found his guitar broken)

United Breaks Guitars

In the song he tells every detail of the story, including the names of the people he had to deal with.


Last edited by dark_lobo; 03-08-2011 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:50 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I believe I found the answer to Keith's airline problem, write a song! ...and have it go viral
It worked for some dude, he had a problem with United Airlines (they mishandled his $3500 guitar, on arrival to his destination he found his guitar broken)

United Breaks Guitars

In the song he tells every detail of the story, including the names of the people he had to deal with.

Did this really work? From the song video I saw a while ago, the guy said to that day United hasn't admitted any wrongdoing and hasn't done anything for him.
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:52 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by myq View Post
Again, I don't know if this is answerable with no real research able to be conducted ethically, but it seems to me that pedophiles are fantasizing anyway, having no porn available might make them go crazier and seek whatever they can, including real children, as opposed to having the potential outlet of animated fake stuff available.
Or we can just hand them a copy of Lolita under the condition that they keep their hands to themselves.
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:05 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I don't want to speak for him, of course, that'd be akin to pedophilia itself, but I think Keith would say why do we need these movies and paintings with child porn in them? Which isn't really a terrible question. What are we (ostensibly non-pedophiles) getting out of that? But alternately, what good is completely ignoring it?
Page Jesse Joyce; he's proficient enough in art critique to answer that.
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