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View Poll Results: What will come of Keith's Continental Airlines letter?
Good things 74 45.96%
No things 87 54.04%
Voters: 161. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-09-2011, 08:59 AM   #51 (permalink)
myq
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Originally Posted by Junkenstein View Post
But if being able to stop the whole boy-lover momvement from feeling free to exist in society with no consequences means hbaving to sacrifice part of my freedom of expression or reading risqué subjects, maybe i'pd sacrifice that. im unsure.
That's the thing. There's no guarantee that sacrificing your freedom WILL result in the other positive consequences you desire. And then you're sacrificing your freedom for nothing. Which you're allowed to do. But if the government MAKES you do it, that's bad.

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Originally Posted by Blitzgal View Post
Fewer pedophiles will help fewer kids be molested.
Agreed. But how do we make there be fewer pedophiles?
With respect to what we're talking about here, I feel like we all approximately agree that there will be the same number of pedophilic-minded people, whether they're allowed to look at CGI kid porn or not, it's just a question of whether that would make them act on it more (because it encourages them) or act on it less (because they've been given SOME outlet).

For the record, I'm totally opposed to molesting kids, and totally pro-figuring out what is the best way to get kids molested less.

And I really feel that talking about this MORE is the way to do that. Like, potential outreach to would-be pedophiles, to try and turn them into gold-star pedophiles. Which would require a huge societal shift in how to deal with this issue, because people are very quick to just jump on the judgmental bandwagon (and I'm not saying they're not justified in so doing, just that by washing their hands of it with an "it's wrong" and that's it, it ignores the possibility of what actions could be taken to make the wrong thing happen less frequently).

So sincerely, what will make there be fewer pedophiles?
What makes someone become a pedophile?
(I presume it's some combination of nature and nurture... it's my impression that BEING abused can turn someone into an abuser, though of course there's not a one-to-one correspondence there. But if this is true sometimes even, then stopping abuse will do more than just stop that abuse, but future abuse as well, and maybe eventually no one will want their constitutionally guaranteed kid pr0n.)

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Originally Posted by Blitzgal View Post
Myq, I do enjoy debating you because you leave all the emotional name calling out of it even while playing Devil's Advocate. Is this because you're a robot?
IS THAT A NAME YOU ARE CALLING ME? BEEP BOOP. THANK YOU.

Here's one more Satanic advocation:

Regarding things that we (or most of we) believe are wrong, but still defensible under the constitution: racist hate speech.

Does everyone believe the KKK has a right to exist? That they can say whatever they want? That saying "I hate black people" (and more explicit speech about why the races should be kept separate or some should be eliminated) shouldn't make you go to jail?

Now, I don't want there to be a lot of people that feel that way. But I don't want it to be illegal for people to feel that way, or say that they feel that way. Even though I imagine that the more people say things like that, the more they perpetuate the belief among like-minded folks, the more people might be convinced/enlisted to their way of thinking (especially when directed at young, innocent, impressionable types).

I feel like this is another instance where if freedom of speech were sacrificed, we could arguably hope for a greater return in results, utilitarian-style. But I don't feel like many of his here would deem that appropriate.


PS I'm a pretty hard-core utilitarian, so I'm thinking about it. Maybe I'll start a non-governmental (so it's not censorship) "No racism towards kids!" campaign, where we convince racists not to indoctrinate their kids, but to tell them of all the options, and then at 18 decide whether or not they want to be a racist. Maybe at 16 or 17, they get to head out into the world like the Amish kids do for a year, and go crazy, and have sex with lots of other races, and then go from there.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:16 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by myq View Post
That's the thing. There's no guarantee that sacrificing your freedom WILL result in the other positive consequences you desire. And then you're sacrificing your freedom for nothing. Which you're allowed to do. But if the government MAKES you do it, that's bad.
.
I knwo thats the more decent thought and i still have some of it in me, but years and years of severe disappointments with the justice system and the moral fiber of the majortiy of people made me desire foir a more strict set of rules that cast out people that use consititutional rights to commit wrong things.

i believe in the idea of freedome, but im also so disgusted by how people abused it and, im afraid, will keep abusing it that i am believing more and more in the need for an inflexible world as the one keith often painted on the show.

it probably has to do with the fact that i'm a disappointed idealist. its like being a catholic and then go atheist, the believers seem so wrong at times, while i still can see some of their points.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:32 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:33 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Agreed. But how do we make there be fewer pedophiles?
That's the problem in a nutshell, buddy. A lot of pedophiles were molested as kids, so it's a circular problem. It would take a huge overhaul of how sexuality is dealt with at a societal level and I'm perfectly willing to admit that I have no fucking clue how to even start going about it.

When you bring in issues of art (depicting rape in a film) and spoken/written word (whether it be fiction or this guy's book) it does make things extremely complicated and I totally agree that there are free speech issues here.

It's too bad we can't take his book as a confession, because in it he describes how he went from being molested himself to molesting other kids. But my guess is the statute of limitations is long past on those crimes.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:46 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by myq View Post
Now, I don't want there to be a lot of people that feel that way. But I don't want it to be illegal for people to feel that way, or say that they feel that way. Even though I imagine that the more people say things like that, the more they perpetuate the belief among like-minded folks, the more people might be convinced/enlisted to their way of thinking (especially when directed at young, innocent, impressionable types).
So why doesn't this apply to pedophiles? Giving them computer generated materials and the like shows them that other people need it like they do (as you said, they only make it because there is a demand) allowing them to feel more normal about it. Just as this show makes lots of people feel better about the seemingly weird things they are experiencing.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:02 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by starscream View Post
Can Lucas' silence rule be enforced during the show too? He's a one man laugh track.
Go fuck yourself. If something's funny, I'm gonna laugh. And Starscream was a little bitch who always ruined Megatron's plans. The Decepticons would have been better off without him.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:10 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Go fuck yourself. If something's funny, I'm gonna laugh. And Starscream was a little bitch who always ruined Megatron's plans. The Decepticons would have been better off without him.
Oh yeah? Well, poingjam was a... well, no one knows, as it is nonsense, but I assume it was lot like Salacious Crumb.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:27 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Oh yeah? Well, poingjam was a... well, no one knows, as it is nonsense, but I assume it was lot like Salacious Crumb.
I'm telling Jabba on you.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:39 AM   #59 (permalink)
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You're lucas, poingjam? cool.

agree on the fact that starscream was annoying and had a horrid voice but i guess it was done on purpose.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:19 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Does everyone believe the KKK has a right to exist? That they can say whatever they want?
No.
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