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Old 03-09-2011, 12:21 PM   #61 (permalink)
myq
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So why doesn't this apply to pedophiles? Giving them computer generated materials and the like shows them that other people need it like they do (as you said, they only make it because there is a demand) allowing them to feel more normal about it. Just as this show makes lots of people feel better about the seemingly weird things they are experiencing.
Are we in disagreement? I can't tell.
I think it DOES apply to pedophiles, but I don't think everyone else does.
I really feel it is possible that allowing pedophiles to be more open about their feelings (but obviously not actions) could lead to more of them feeling less isolated, being more likely to seek support and help, etc., but that by just downright saying "wrong!" and paying no further attention to the issue, certainly doesn't help, and likely perpetuates the cycle.

And Keith, are you saying you don't think racists should have a right to express their racism? Or something different?
I think Chemda and I tried to address this issue on the show, but to clarify, you know that you use a lot of freedom of speech in your life/livelihood, yes? And that it could be viewed as hypocritical to champion your right to discuss who you hate but not afford that right to others?
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:25 PM   #62 (permalink)
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I will abide by the rules as well and understand that I may not be part of groups promoting racial intolerance. Fair is fair.
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:58 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by myq View Post
Are we in disagreement? I can't tell.
I think it DOES apply to pedophiles, but I don't think everyone else does.
I really feel it is possible that allowing pedophiles to be more open about their feelings (but obviously not actions) could lead to more of them feeling less isolated, being more likely to seek support and help, etc., but that by just downright saying "wrong!" and paying no further attention to the issue, certainly doesn't help, and likely perpetuates the cycle.
Oh. Then no on agreements (yes on disagreements?). I feel like if the pedophiles are made to feel as if their impulses aren't so isolated to their own minds, that lots of people have them, they will become more likely to act on them rather than just being ashamed of themselves. I guess this assumes that the whole idea is wrong to them to begin with though. Which shouldn't be assumed, I suppose, but seems to be the case.
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:11 PM   #64 (permalink)
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i always had hopes on the possibility of reforming pedophiles but reading books on the subjects and trying to understand it, made me kinda aware that its not a suppressable urge in most cases. it comes back.

next sentence will sound like homophobia but its not what its meant to be, so please do not overread into this:

from what i gathered for a lot of pedophiles, their attraction to young boys is close to a sexual orientation. that does not justify it or makes it tolerable, since said orientation involves the abuse of a person (and in this case, even if the kids are "consenusal" it is still abuse, since they are manipulated into believeng that what they're doin is right) but it means, to me, that if you try to "clean their heads" or guide them, you might end up with a pedophile who suppresses his/her instincts but ends up with a resurfacing after a while, like it happend with reformed gays. some head are shaped the wrong way, and cant be helpes. i think the same of lots of drug addicts and abuysive people too. the failures on the long distance are a such a high number, and the victims of their actions keep rising.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:10 PM   #65 (permalink)
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I will abide by the rules as well and understand that I may not be part of groups promoting racial intolerance. Fair is fair.
You may be part of the group, but your message is fail, not fair.

The U.S. believes that actions and statements, while offensive, should be protected by freedom of expression. Curtailing expression is not an appropriate or effective means of combating racism and related intolerance. Rather, it is the U.S. government's firm conviction, as reflected in the U.S. Constitution and laws of the United States, that individual freedoms of speech, expression and association should be robustly protected, even when the ideas represented by such expression are full of hatred. In a free society, hateful ideas will fail on account of their own intrinsic lack of merit. The best antidote to intolerance is not criminalizing offensive speech but rather a combination of robust legal protections against discrimination and hate crimes, proactive government outreach to minority religious groups, and the vigorous defense of both freedom of religion and freedom of expression.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:15 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Junkenstein View Post
next sentence will sound like homophobia but its not what its meant to be, so please do not overread into this:

from what i gathered for a lot of pedophiles, their attraction to young boys is close to a sexual orientation.

No homophobia, because pedophiles target boys or girls depending on whichever gender they are attracted to. It isn't a "gay" thing. It's an entirely separate orientation, if that's what you want to call it. The guy in Wisconsin who had used kids underwear in his van was into girls.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:27 PM   #67 (permalink)
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No homophobia, because pedophiles target boys or girls depending on whichever gender they are attracted to. It isn't a "gay" thing. It's an entirely separate orientation, if that's what you want to call it. The guy in Wisconsin who had used kids underwear in his van was into girls.
i know, i just meant that i didnt want my comparison with sexual orintation to be mistaken as a "gays and pedos are the same" argument.

actually, i think child abuse has more numbers in the man with little girls aspect, especially of the incestous type.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:29 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Blitzgal View Post
No homophobia, because pedophiles target boys or girls depending on whichever gender they are attracted to. It isn't a "gay" thing. It's an entirely separate orientation, if that's what you want to call it. The guy in Wisconsin who had used kids underwear in his van was into girls.
you're misunderstanding Junk, i believe. he's just saying that pedo's like boys or girls just like homo's and hetero's like men or women.


EDIT: ha sorry Junk you beat me to reenforcing your point
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:32 PM   #69 (permalink)
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no sorries, thanks for getting it.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:36 PM   #70 (permalink)
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the term "sexual preference" fits better.
some people like fucking asians.
some like redheads.
some like toddlers.
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