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View Poll Results: What will come of Keith's Continental Airlines letter?
Good things 74 45.96%
No things 87 54.04%
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:51 PM   #71 (permalink)
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yeah, and i think it doesnt humanize them or make it tolerable since the main assumption of all interactions is not hurting or abusing others (unless they like it and theyre consensual) and NO underage person can be consensual.

still that to me just means that even if they KNOW its wrong (and lots of em do), they cant help it and cannot be helped.

a good extreme example is the pedophile priest in the docu "deliver us from evil". the man says out loud he wont stop and he wants to be lockjed up or put down cause he cannot control himself, and confesses on cam cause its the only he thing that can stop it.

at that point, he has to be put down somehow.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:55 PM   #72 (permalink)
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The Stanhope joke sounds weird out of context, the bit where he made it (which is on the great "no refunds" special) was more about the mass hysteria againt the internet than about child porn.
The difference, though, is he is talking about child porn like it is a porn movie. Child porn can be as simple as pictures of little kids in their underwear.
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Old 03-09-2011, 03:04 PM   #73 (permalink)
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his point is mainly that crusading against the internet like its the source of pedophilia, is counterproductive cause all the web is is a place wehrre all sorts of human perversion has a place.

the joke si a part of a wholw argument that is rooted in a criticism of obessive parents who are more focuse4d on abnning that parenting. and since its comedfy, he pushes it. its not supposed to be dceconstructed as a politcal statement.

Bill Hikcs made a joke that (taken out of context) sounds exactly like "Childbirth isnt natural". one can say hes talking shit but if you hear the whole argument hes making a much more layered point.

thats the problem with quoting social commentary or complex non-traditional stand-up. the jokes have more to them than just punchlines and sound insane if taken out of context.
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Old 03-09-2011, 03:05 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PsychoLoco View Post
You may be part of the group, but your message is fail, not fair.

The U.S. believes that actions and statements, while offensive, should be protected by freedom of expression. Curtailing expression is not an appropriate or effective means of combating racism and related intolerance. Rather, it is the U.S. government's firm conviction, as reflected in the U.S. Constitution and laws of the United States, that individual freedoms of speech, expression and association should be robustly protected, even when the ideas represented by such expression are full of hatred. In a free society, hateful ideas will fail on account of their own intrinsic lack of merit. The best antidote to intolerance is not criminalizing offensive speech but rather a combination of robust legal protections against discrimination and hate crimes, proactive government outreach to minority religious groups, and the vigorous defense of both freedom of religion and freedom of expression.
Saying people with MS are assholes is freedom of speech and opinion. It may hurt feelings, but is also said with humor. I don't like the word retard, yet that gets thrown around all the time. There is gray area involved.

Even if you go to a funeral with a sign saying that "God killed your son on purpose", you're allowed to be there...but common decency draws the line at 1000 feet away from the actual funeral.

When you're spouting racist remarks and telling one particular type of person that they are less of a person and instingating violence, the line is drawn. Harm is happening to another human.

Freedom of speech needs to be an organic thing, and I think the basis of where the line is drawn is at actual harm to others. Where we define what actual harm is (physical vs mental) is yet another organic thing. We're people, not robots, we need to be able to think intelligently about a situation and make decisions on it based in common sense.
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Old 03-09-2011, 03:19 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stulagu View Post
Freedom of speech needs to be an organic thing, and I think the basis of where the line is drawn is at actual harm to others. Where we define what actual harm is (physical vs mental) is yet another organic thing. We're people, not robots, we need to be able to think intelligently about a situation and make decisions on it based in common sense.
i am shocked at realizing that i agreee wholeheartedly.

maybe we arent destined to constant forum arguing, stulagu.
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Old 03-09-2011, 03:54 PM   #76 (permalink)
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You both make good points, but if you are going the route of basically saying it crosses a line when someone is harmed, then you'd have to outlaw a lot of stuff in the U.S., such as ritual circumcision in Judaism (because there is physical harm to a child that cannot give consent), and you could take that philosophical argument to the extreme, such as with piercing ears. All of these decisions would have to be made by people over the age of 18, and you could not really make an exception for kids with parents that consent because parents all over the world consent to stuff that really is harmful to children by our standards, such as ritual female circumcision in Africa, exploitation of child labor in Southeast Asia, and the suppression of women's rights in many Islamic communities.

EDIT: BTW, that explanation of U.S. policy is not something I made up. That is paraphrased directly from explanatory language on a UN resolution where the U.S. voted in November 2010 against outlawing the expression of Nazi ideology.
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:01 PM   #77 (permalink)
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i am shocked at realizing that i agreee wholeheartedly.

maybe we arent destined to constant forum arguing, stulagu.
I agree, Junk
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:04 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by stulagu View Post
Saying people with MS are assholes is freedom of speech and opinion.
I'm sorry, but that is not an opinion. Rather, it is actually The Malley Theory on Exclusive Distribution of Multiple Sclerosis Among the Asshole Population. It shall remain a valid theory until disproven.
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:11 PM   #79 (permalink)
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I'm sorry, but that is not an opinion. Rather, it is actually The Malley Theory on Exclusive Distribution of Multiple Sclerosis Among the Asshole Population. It shall remain a valid theory until disproven.
Yes. Thank you. But you've got to shorten that name.
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:23 PM   #80 (permalink)
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You both make good points, but if you are going the route of basically saying it crosses a line when someone is harmed, then you'd have to outlaw a lot of stuff in the U.S., such as ritual circumcision in Judaism (because there is physical harm to a child that cannot give consent), and you could take that philosophical argument to the extreme, such as with piercing ears. All of these decisions would have to be made by people over the age of 18, and you could not really make an exception for kids with parents that consent because parents all over the world consent to stuff that really is harmful to children by our standards, such as ritual female circumcision in Africa, exploitation of child labor in Southeast Asia, and the suppression of women's rights in many Islamic communities.
But once again we get into that gray area "use common sense" part.

You need a parent's consent to get piercings if you're under 16. Not because it harms you but because kids are dumb and do dumb things which is why parents are in charge of kids.

And religious ritual IS looked at closely. Like you mentioned, female circumcision in Africa is horrible. And it is becoming an issue. Male circumcision isn't an issue because 1) it is medically healthy for you (yes, I know uncircumcised can be fine if you really take care of it, but for general purposes cirucumcision is now for health reasons more than religious) and 2) it is a small amount of pain. If male circumcision caused severe emotional trama and other side effects, there would be more policing of it.

Though I get your points of harm and repression, these are examples from other countries, not in USA (WINNING!). If female circumcision happened in a small podunk town in the midwest, our government would put a stop to it. The only reason horrible repression happens is because we aren't the world police...all we can do is bring awareness and pressure another country to stop.

If it is my religious ritual to throw a brick at a child's head, it would be stopped, believe me. But I dislocated my 3 year old daughter's arm while trying to leave the children's museum a few weeks ago. Did I get arrested for harm to a child? NO. Because stuff like that happens sometimes. Will I get arrested if she is constantly in the doctor's office with signs of abuse? Yes. Because there is a common sense gray area and I obviously have gone over the line into abuse.
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