1398: Ridiculous

[Keith]

"Look the fuck around. Obviously I'm right."

[jacey.ATX]

Gender neutral pronouns are often preferred by individuals who identify as intersex or genderqueer, meaning they feel they do not fit in to the gender binary.

The professor I mentioned (at the University of Texas at Austin, hardly a hippie school) identifies as neither male nor female. Ze is the Education Coordinator of the Gender and Sexuality Center, and ze taught us how to use the following gender neutral pronouns:

"Ze" (pronounced 'zee') is used in place of "he" or "she."
"Hir" (pronounced 'here') is used in place of "him" or "her."
"Hirs" (pronounced 'heres') is used in place of "his" or "hers."
"Hirself" (pronounced 'here-self') is used in place of "himself" or "herself."

Handy Examples:
Gendered: He went to his grandmother's house to help wash the car.
Gender-neutral: Ze went to hir grandmother's house to help her wash the car.

Gendered: I asked Sam if she wanted to be in our play, and she said she would check her schedule.
Gender-neutral: I asked Sam if ze wanted to be in our play, and ze said ze would check hir schedule.


Look, I didn't think them up. I'm just passing on the information. In my opinion, gender-neutral pronouns will never "catch on" in a sense that they will come into mainstream usage-- that's not really the point.

But if I meet someone who is interex or genderqueer and prefers to be called "ze," I will do my best to honor hir wishes. Life is difficult enough for people who are born in bodies that contradict how they feel inside. If my changing a little pronoun can help them feel more like themselves around me, of course I will do that.

[Keith]

Your professor iz zee douche.

[jacey.ATX]

Touché, Keith.
Maybe you should have taught the class.

[DWarrior]

Just as calling Lauren "he" would prompt people to ask questions that Chemda would explain, having "ze" catch on would prompt the same exact questions. It would be an ok gender-neutral pronoun to use in writing, in place of the awkward he/she, but when referring to a person it would be no different than "he/she." The only way a referential "ze" would catch on is in a society where transgender is completely not out of the ordinary, and in such a society referring to Lauren as "he" wouldn't prompt any questions anyway.

Btw, I use "they" for a gender-neutral single pronoun, and fuck the people who deride, it's much better than "ze" or "he/she." Why not just refer to gender-whatever-is-not-offensive-now individuals as "they" and "them"?

on that note, is "genderqueer" not offensive but "queer" is?

[DWarrior]

Originally Posted by jacey.ATX

Touché, Keith.
Maybe you should have taught the class.

You never use gender terms when actually talking to the professor. If your class is in English, "professor" is gender-neutral. So it's pretty self-important to care about how people refer to you when you're not there. And asking to use "ze" is just asking people to talk about you.

[jacey.ATX]

Originally Posted by DWarrior

Btw, I use "they" for a gender-neutral single pronoun, and fuck the people who deride, it's much better than "ze" or "he/she." Why not just refer to gender-whatever-is-not-offensive-now individuals as "they" and "them"?

There are situations in which using "they" as a singular pronoun sounds really awkward, but if it works for you, go for it.

Originally Posted by DWarrior

on that note, is "genderqueer" not offensive but "queer" is?

For most of the last century, "queer" was used as a derogatory term; however, over the past 10-20 years, there has been a shift toward reappropriating the word to be used as an umbrella term under which sexual minorities may unite.

Some people disagree with this usage, as they still find the term offensive. But many people are beginning to identify themselves this way, especially because it is inclusive, so it unites everyone from bisexual and gay to trans and intersex under one term, which is helpful for working together to gain political power.

But that doesn't mean it's suddenly okay to go around calling people queers. It is still offensive if it's said with cruel intentions. And I wouldn't call anyone queer, even with good intentions, unless they had first identified themselves that way.

Originally Posted by DWarrior

You never use gender terms when actually talking to the professor. If your class is in English, "professor" is gender-neutral. So it's pretty self-important to care about how people refer to you when you're not there. And asking to use "ze" is just asking people to talk about you.

Actually, we called hir Shane, and ze was a guest lecturer in my class for a few days. And though ze was using hirself as an example, the point of teaching us these terms was not really about hir. Ze was teaching us about the sometimes complicated linguistics of gender identity issues, in general. In my profession, we often work with sexual minorities, and this was part of a class in which we were learning about gender identity issues and how they effect our clients.

[invader]

Gender neutral pronouns seems quite silly and tedious. But I've never been in a situation where I've needed one, so I guess me thinking that way is insensitive. Also correct me if I'm wrong but Lauren isn't exactly gender neutral. Lauren knows exactly what gender she wants to be and what gender she is perceived as. So using gender neutral pronouns to describe her would be just as wrong as calling her "she".

About the topic of the dude getting fired for shooting his hand gun during the robbery attempt. Its obvious he didn't break any laws, whats a grey area is if he violated company policy. I'm pretty sure most large companies have it written down that during a robbery attempt you are just suppose to give the robbers what they want and not put up a fight. Not to mention the fact that if this dude hit a co-worker or customer the company would have had a hefty lawsuit on their hands.

Also in this guys defense its insanely hard to hit a moving target with a handgun pass a relatively short distance. So kiddos if some one ever pulls a gun on your and there is at least six feet of distance between you two, make a run for it. Chances are the person is going to probably miss.

Finally, this is just based of my own experiences but every woman that I've ever dated who thought they would never date a smoker, had no problem dating me. Smoking isn't the deal breaker that most people think it is, as long as you two click on other thinks. She'll more likely view your smoking as another one of those little fixable quirks.... for the most part.

[DWarrior]

Originally Posted by invader

Also in this guys defense its insanely hard to hit a moving target with a handgun pass a relatively short distance. So kiddos if some one ever pulls a gun on your and there is at least six feet of distance between you two, make a run for it. Chances are the person is going to probably miss.

Don't forget the schoolboard meeting shooting:



(at 2:20) Dude took the first shot almost point blank with aim and still missed. And then didn't hit anybody.

[invader]

Yep unless you are trained in how to use a handgun, posture, stance, yadda yadda, (which I am not) its almost pointless to own one.