1410: No Dancing

[Medium Brumski]

Originally Posted by BrianAlt

All I know is that I don't think of myself as a "boy with a penis" any more than I think of myself as a "boy with an arm".

Lol, awesome.

More seriously, if you didn't have arms, do you think you would miss them, especially if the other people around you that you identified with had them.

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

all i'm saying is that you cannot understand how it feels to be a transgender unless you're one, its a genetic thing, not a state of mind.

Debateable (and probably out right wrong). If it were, eventually the "gay trait" would be bred out of the gene pool. If you're gay, does that mean one of your parents is hiding their own homosexuality?

[Junkenstein]

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

ebateable (and probably out right wrong). If it were, eventually the "gay trait" would be bred out of the gene pool. If you're gay, does that mean one of your parents is hiding their own homosexuality?

what the fuck are you talking about? all i meant is that its not a choice and its something youre born with.

dont use the word genetics, then. i dont know whats the correct nerd term for something youre born with and isnt related to a voluntary deicison.

[BrianAlt]

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

do you think you would miss them, especially if the other people around you that you identified with had them.

I might miss having arms, but I wouldn't know exactly what I was missing. Which was my point.

[Junkenstein]

i think the problem is identifying the issue with having a penis or not. the transgendered aspect involves a whole set of aspects.

i dont get this. everyone seemed to understand this pretty well when Lauren introduced the issue, first. did you all get a lobotomy all of a sudden?

[Medium Brumski]

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

what the fuck are you talking about? all i meant is that its not a choice and its something youre born with.

dont use the word genetics, then. i dont know whats the correct nerd term for something youre born with and isnt related to a voluntary deicison.

I mean it's debateable. If you were undeniably born with it, then that's nature, i.e. genetics, which would mean you had gay ancestors who still managed to reproduce (or maybe a specific combo of hetero genes made could make you gay, hmm, interesting thought). If you some how acquired being gay as a child, then that's nurture, but how come a hetero household would make you gay? And not all your siblings are also gay? Mainly I just took a que from your use of "genetics," which you should know to be more careful with since there's a biology nerd on these forums (me). However, I find myself playing Child Rapist Lawyer here, so maybe I should STFU.

Originally Posted by BrianAlt

I might miss having arms, but I wouldn't know exactly what I was missing. Which was my point.

Gotcha back

You don't need to know exactly what you're missing to miss it, which is my point. I don't know what it's like to own or drive a motorcycle, but I want a Ducati (not really, just a random thing that came to mind).

[Hennessy]

Originally Posted by BrianAlt

I don't feel like a man. I don't feel like a woman (at all!). All I feel like is ME.

If you woke up with tits and no dick tomorrow, believe me, Brian, you WOULD know what it feels to feel like a man and not be one. How easy it is for you to stand there and say you don't feel like a man or a woman. You must feel more like one than the other if you had to clarify that you don't feel like a man but you don't feel like a woman "At All!"
I get this Brian, and I get where you're coming from, really. I understand your logic and wish it were as easy.

I also understand Huggie and the 'crazy' theory. Huggie, you don't think that I thought this all my life? The only reason I don't think I'm crazy anymore is because I've realized that I'm not the only one that feels this way and there are thousands of people just like me, dozens of whom I met. We are just coming into the day in age where we're finding out that gender is more than just our peepees. Our bodies don't define our gender. Things aren't black and white. They're technicolor. This is new information however, going against much of our history and what we're taught and "know." So it's a tough truth to swallow. ESPECIALLY when there's a huge majority that is (or at least seems) black and white and when we don't identify with these situations personally.

Originally Posted by BrianAlt

So, Lauren, honestly, you don't know if you feel like a man.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Ok now that statement really is just ignorant.

Originally Posted by BrianAlt

All you know is that you feel something is a bit off. I have a feeling you feel that way more than I do. But feeling like a man? I think you just feel like you and you think you are different than those around you. So, be you and hopefully the rest falls in place.

I know I'm not special here and that everyone feels off in some way. We're human, for god sake. This is a tad more specific. No I'm not confused Brian, as you've mentioned because I know what I am. Also, Huggie, it isn't a mental disorder. It's a physical disorder. I feel I have a physical disorder. Now if we lived in a society where peepees didn't define us and we weren't taught that only boys have penises and only girls have vaginas, yes, Brian, I bet you I wouldn't feel "off" or male. Because there would be no social contradiction. I'd just feel me. But again. Try. Please try to put yourself in my shoes. Try, as hard as it is, to put yourself in a female body and then talk to me.

[Junkenstein]

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

I mean it's debateable. If you were undeniably born with it, then that's nature, i.e. genetics, which would mean you had gay ancestors who still managed to reproduce (or maybe a specific combo of hetero genes made could make you gay, hmm, interesting thought). If you some how acquired being gay as a child, then that's nurture, but how come a hetero household would make you gay? And not all your siblings are also gay?.

ok its debateable, everything is debeateable, but when it comes to the barebone issues, especially when it comes to sexual identity, rights and all, the two main blocks are homsexuality as a choice vs homosexuality as an aspect youre born with and cannot be modified.

taking it as a behavioural aspect is one of the arguments of homophobis (not saying youre a homophobe but thats how it is), and one of the arguments behind the re-orientation clinics

and when it comes to being transgender, i wouldnt even discuss it the same way as homosexuality. its something youre born with, not hereditary, maybe, but defnitely not something you "learn" or "choose"

[The Girl]

To add to Lauren's post: Brian, I feel more "masculine" than other women. I'm more aggressive, outspoken and other such things we normally equate with male traits (whether that's right or wrong to equate as such).
BUT if I woke up with a penis I would cry... like a lot.

[Hennessy]

Originally Posted by The Girl

BUT if I woke up with a penis I would cry... like a lot.

So would I.

[dEadERest]