1469: A Nut Too Many

[Medium Brumski]

I'm backing up Louis, "babies look like their dads" factoid.

Not sure how long my biology rant will be...

When thinking about how humans evolved, you have to realize that modern society has greatly lifted natural selection for humans. Medical procedures and government assistance keeps many people alive today that would have simply died or starved to death at an early age for the vast majority of the time that humanity has existed.

Now if a baby was born in caveman times, and the dad doesn't think it's his and doesn't care about it, the baby now only has the mom to care for it, which would make it more likely for that baby to not survive. If the baby obviously looked like the dad, the dad is more likely to stick around, doubling the number of people taking care of the baby, increasing the chance of that baby surviving and producing it's own offspring, passing along it's combination of genes that caused it to look like it's father, and so on down the line, giving us the modern effect of babies tending to look like their fathers.

I don't think there's any hard evidence supporting this really, just a conclusion you come to when someone's ask "Have you ever noticed babies tend to look like their dad's" and you apply logic to an understanding of evolution.

[Sashi]

Originally Posted by Strawdog

That's what the process was orginally made for though, it just got transformed (pretty much as soon as it became possible) into a way to get money quick.

The fact is that you should know that when you donate, your sperm might possibly be used to impregnate someone and there will be a child out there made up of 50% your DNA. While this shouldn't mean they can contact you we shouldn't gloss over the fact that that's the whole reason the service exists.

As for people thinking it's anonymous, any reputable agency keeps your details on file. Your name, height, weight, skin colour, hair colour etc. is all on file somewhere because when the women/couples browse for the donor they want to pick they will need these details or else you might end up with a hideous child (a black albino ginger for example). It also allows them to find your donation should you return to them down the line and tell them you just found out you've got a congenital disease that could affect any offspring.
The agency isn't supposed to release any details that would allow the child to track you down (your name is also kept from the parents) but you've got to realise that it's just people trying to make a wage working at these places and the right amount of money in the right palms will grant you access to information you shouldn't have.

Well, my point was that I doubt that there's someone who donates sperm for the purpose of making a baby. If I was a sperm bank baby, I wouldn't even think about contacting my genetic father, 'cause I can't think of how that can end well in any way.

[DWarrior]

Originally Posted by Medium Brumski

I'm backing up Louis, "babies look like their dads" factoid.

Not sure how long my biology rant will be...

When thinking about how humans evolved, you have to realize that modern society has greatly lifted natural selection for humans. Medical procedures and government assistance keeps many people alive today that would have simply died or starved to death at an early age for the vast majority of the time that humanity has existed.

Now if a baby was born in caveman times, and the dad doesn't think it's his and doesn't care about it, the baby now only has the mom to care for it, which would make it more likely for that baby to not survive. If the baby obviously looked like the dad, the dad is more likely to stick around, doubling the number of people taking care of the baby, increasing the chance of that baby surviving and producing it's own offspring, passing along it's combination of genes that caused it to look like it's father, and so on down the line, giving us the modern effect of babies tending to look like their fathers.

I don't think there's any hard evidence supporting this really, just a conclusion you come to when someone's ask "Have you ever noticed babies tend to look like their dad's" and you apply logic to an understanding of evolution.

I'm not sure how well that makes sense, since "looking like your father" doesn't have to be a genetic trait, but a result of genes. For example, if we killed half of the girls that are born, we wouldn't be effecting genetic change, once we stopped there would still be half girls (or whatever the actual stat is, .52?) So with "looking like your father", if the mother-looking babies were more likely to get killed before, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a genetic trait we passed on, we just used to kill off motherly-looking combinations.

Anyway, you're the biologist here, I only had BIO 101 and some math.

PS, "effecting" was used correctly so nobody better fucking say shit.

[DWarrior]

Originally Posted by pmbailey

But it's really not fair to the kids if they are raised their whole life thinking one person is their father, only to find out in their 20's (or later) that is not their real father. I could see where that could fuck up some kids, finding out that information so late in life.

I would hope once someone's in their 20s, they're past that wimpy faggotry. If I found out my father's not my real father now, I'd be like "ok, cool story bros, I'm gonna go check my email"

[pmbailey]

Originally Posted by DWarrior

I would hope once someone's in their 20s, they're past that wimpy faggotry. If I found out my father's not my real father now, I'd be like "ok, cool story bros, I'm gonna go check my email"

Agreed, I would be cool with it too. I'm just saying some not-so-well mentally kids might not handle it well, even in their 20's or later.

The Grandfather I knew my whole life was not my Father's REAL Father... He was his step-dad, but I was raised knowing that. I never met my biological Grandfather before he died, and it didn't prevent me from loving my step-Grandfather any more. I'm just glad there was never a mystery around it, and that my family was up-front with me from the start. It was never some big family secret that had to be reviled at some point in life.

[Medium Brumski]

Originally Posted by DWarrior

I'm not sure how well that makes sense, since "looking like your father" doesn't have to be a genetic trait, but a result of genes.

I'd like to see you explain that more. Genes make genetic traits, and genetic traits are made from genes, I don't see how you are trying to seperate them. Regardless, you pass them on to your offspring all the same.

Originally Posted by DWarrior

For example, if we killed half of the girls that are born, we wouldn't be effecting genetic change, once we stopped there would still be half girls (or whatever the actual stat is, .52?)

Couple reasons why that's a bad example. The way you put it no selection is being made, it's random, so no trait would be getting selected for. Also, all future offspring would still require a mother, so the fact that half of girls were killed for a time would not be seen as far as evolution is concerned.

Originally Posted by DWarrior

So with "looking like your father", if the mother-looking babies were more likely to get killed before, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a genetic trait we passed on,

Yes it does, that's how evolution works.

[DWarrior]

"Looking like your father" is not a genetic trait in itself, but a result of the Father's phenotypes being present in the offspring.

So each generation in the past, the offspring were selected for father's phenotype, but since each had a 50/50 chance of itself being boy or girl, that in itself wouldn't confer any advantage to the next generation (since it would either get a benefit or not). I guess all it does is give advantage to dominant alleles, but that's not a father/mother distinction.

I don't think there is a gene for "just use the sperm's chromosomes and ignore the other half"

[Montucky Jess Jess]

Sperm donation is fucking creepy. Sell drugs or get a real job. Of course all these weird kids that you indirectly created are gonna track their biological parents down.... and kill them.

[Medium Brumski]

Originally Posted by DWarrior

"Looking like your father" is not a genetic trait in itself, but a result of the Father's phenotypes being present in the offspring.

OK, that makes sense.

Originally Posted by DWarrior

So each generation in the past, the offspring were selected for father's phenotype, but since each had a 50/50 chance of itself being boy or girl, that in itself wouldn't confer any advantage to the next generation (since it would either get a benefit or not). I guess all it does is give advantage to dominant alleles, but that's not a father/mother distinction.

Not sure I follow you here. Whether you are a boy or girl doesn't matter, you still look like the dad. Not universal of course, but you should see my niece and her dad.
Are you saying that a daughter (F1) who gets her dad's (P1) dominant allele for facial phenotype would then pass that dominant allele to her offspring (F2), resulting in her mate being more likely to abandon them since they now look only like their mom, that is sound reasoning, but things can be much more complicated then just dominant or recessive, or even just one gene governing one trait.

Originally Posted by DWarrior

I don't think there is a gene for "just use the sperm's chromosomes and ignore the other half"

You wouldn't need to get so specific. You can just say that maternal phenotypic facial expression is repressed in comparison to the fathers. How? I don't know but that's why stuff like this gets funding. Why? I refer you to my other post.

[Blitzgal]

I always heard that "babies look like their fathers" theory, too. I haven't seen it hold true in meeting the many babies my co-workers have had in the past ten years -- around twenty or so. There are some that look like their fathers, some like their mothers, and some a nice mixture of the two. There's one boy who is a perfect "Mini Me" of his father, and in another family a boy and girl who look EXACTLY like their mother, down to the shape of their eyebrows. I can't ever see resemblances until the kids are over a few months old, though. Newborns just look like wrinkly old men to me.

My nephew looks exactly like my brother, eerily so. But my niece looks like our mother (her grandmother) -- as do I. If I'm out and about with them, everyone assumes that she's my daughter. Neither one look too much like their mother. So does that still count, if the kids look like the father's *family* if not the father himself?

Tried to find what the research is saying, and it appears conflicted.

Fact or Fiction: Do Babies Resemble Their Fathers More Than Their Mothers?: Scientific American