1495: The Loopdy-Doos

[DaveNJ]

Originally Posted by Abby

Are you having the same troubles as OWS?
Identifying a problem, and not bringing forward any means of fixing it.

Not that I think you are wrong - they're just trying to do something, anything!
Can you blame them?

I like to think that there will be good coming from this, as the news that things needs to change spreads. If not, what's the point of trying.

I was in Florida last year, and there is like a line, sorta what Keith and Chemda were talking about in Washington, where things are gorgeous...now everyone's homeless, and all companies are bankrupt. That line needs to get less distinctive.

I dont know how to do it, but I think saying this needs to be done is a great start. And I think enough people believe it that eventually there will be all the things people say there needs to be, cause we say there needs to be.

Why should I have to fix OWS? I don't know if they can fix their movement, or if they even want to. I'ma do my thing for the time being, and those crazy cats can kick it in parks and improve their drum skills.

I'll be interested when OWS comes up with a concrete position that I can then agree or disagree with. In the meantime, I think they're being wildly self-indulgent and focusing on the community aspects of the movement, rather than the important and difficult work of consensus-building and establishing positions.

[MalcolmSmith]

Originally Posted by Abby

Not that I think you are wrong - they're just trying to do something, anything!
Can you blame them?

But, you have to pick your battles. There's a real danger of burnout here. There's nothing worse than someone throwing everything they've got at an issue only to have it fail, or worse, backfire. A wise path would be to chill out, identify the central issues, prioritize, build the resources they need, and then go in with a Colin Powell doctrine-style takedown. Part of the problem here is that the left elite are wedded to a romanticized version of 60s protests. These suburban Marxists have taught their children and students that protesting in the streets is actually an effective way to bring about change. This stuff is very very risky at best. It's like working with old sweaty dynamite. Hey, this is the 21st century, there are better technologies for bringing about change. OWS should use them. If they don't, this whole thing is likely to blow up in our face.

[Kultcher]

Originally Posted by MalcolmSmith

Hey, this is the 21st century, there are better technologies for bringing about change.

Could you be more specific?

[MalcolmSmith]

Originally Posted by Abby

Are you having the same troubles as OWS?
Identifying a problem, and not bringing forward any means of fixing it.

Not that I think you are wrong - they're just trying to do something, anything!
Can you blame them?

I like to think that there will be good coming from this, as the news that things needs to change spreads. If not, what's the point of trying.

I was in Florida last year, and there is like a line, sorta what Keith and Chemda were talking about in Washington, where things are gorgeous...now everyone's homeless, and all companies are bankrupt. That line needs to get less distinctive.

I dont know how to do it, but I think saying this needs to be done is a great start. And I think enough people believe it that eventually there will be all the things people say there needs to be, cause we say there needs to be.

Originally Posted by Kultcher

Could you be more specific?

Well, the right have been making really effective use of survey research and focus groups for years. It's how they managed to flat out run Obama even when he had both houses of congress and a strong public mandate at the beginning of his term. Very impressive. How many times does a team have to run a set play on them before they get it? Geez?

I would poll and focus group the #$!! out of the electorate in order to identify common interests in terms of opposition to the status quo. I'd do the same with economists, political scientists, and the like in order to identify any consensus agreements on underlying pathologies and potential solutions. I think we generally agree on what needs to be done. We just lack the will and practical mechanisms to do it. This would be an iterative process going back and forth between causal agents and solutions and public attitudes, but there's no reason it couldn't be done fairly quickly. Basically: identify and prioritize underlying pathologies; identify possible solutions; match 'em up; implement; and track. Implementation would basically consist of a ton of adsmanship. The left loathes adsmanship, but it's not inconsistent with how humans as social creatures work. It's how humans roll.

Fear of science and fear of the way people work has really been killing the left. Too many are brain-locked into a one-size-fits-all approach to social change. It's like protest is some sort of caveman club that they think will force any group of people to comply with any demand in any situation. Ugg! Nonsense. People are too smart for that. Never worked, never will. This is why multi-partisan coalition building is so important. Some of these cavemen are simply not going to be able to come along. They'll have to be left behind. That leaves a void that can only be filled by people from other political/ideological clans. Let go of the Neanderthals, get with science, use the tools we've had for a hundred years, get 'er done. This should be a little more Manhattan Project and a lot less Lollapalooza.

Me got caveman club! Why you not listen to me?

Bill, there appears to be a homeless person on the lawn. We're having a party at seven. I'm afraid he'll throw up on the Bermuda grass. Why don't you give him an extension on his unemployment or a $250 tax refund check. That should make him go away for a while. While he's gone, increase his ATM fees and medical costs and send his wife's job to China. We're entitled to a little profit for this inconvenience.

[HeyAnne]

Both Molly and John are not my physical match - I am into tall, dark and handsome. I did vote I would date one of them because they are so charming on the show.


They are both so cute, funny and smart. Love, love and love some more John and Molly.

[HeyAnne]

I would love just one answer to the OWS movement, why block those who have jobs from getting to them? The people who walk over the brooklyn bridge are not the big wigs and they need their jobs.

Also, do they know how much overtime those NYPD officers are making because of this????? I do and I know that those cops are thanking the OWS movement right now.

[MalcolmSmith]

Originally Posted by HeyAnne

I would love just one answer to the OWS movement, why block those who have jobs from getting to them? The people who walk over the brooklyn bridge are not the big wigs and they need their jobs.

Also, do they know how much overtime those NYPD officers are making because of this????? I do and I know that those cops are thanking the OWS movement right now.

John Knefel was pretty dogged about the right to assemble. I agree we have a right to assemble, but not a right to assemble wherever we want. Bloomberg wasn't preventing them from assembling anywhere, he was just preventing them from assembling there. I'm sure there are tons of places that would love to host OWS that wouldn't bother Bloomberg at all. It's not an issue of assembly, it's an issue of disruption. OWS isn't there to assemble, they are there to disrupt. Bloomberg may have to allow assembly, but he doesn't have to allow disruption. It was a stretch to call the conference call of mayors a conspiracy. As mayor, you'd be an idiot not to consult with other mayors about these protests. It would be negligent. You'd also have to be an idiot to not want these things to go away in your city. Mayors worry a lot. They worry about regular trash pickups, sewage backups, and potholes. They also worry about the ability of protestors to not flake out. They would much rather the protestors go home and bother people from the safety of the Internet. I can't imagine there would be a mayor of any political stripe who would encourage this stuff.

[crazyrob]

Really Goldman Sachs owns Washington? To me it looks like Unions
Top All-Time Donors, 1989-2012 | OpenSecrets

[Kultcher]

If OWS wasn't disrupting anything, they'd be completely ignored. The media already does a pretty good job of downplaying the whole movement.

[MalcolmSmith]

Originally Posted by Kultcher

If OWS wasn't disrupting anything, they'd be completely ignored. The media already does a pretty good job of downplaying the whole movement.

Yes, if all you can muster is disruption and you stop disrupting, you won't be doing anything worth reporting. However, if you actually do something, you get noticed. If OWS could create just 500 jobs, they'd be all over the news. You have to have something more than drums. Do something.

P.S. The media isn't downplaying OWS. The media just likes things it can sell. It likes things people want to watch like Kim Kardashian. It doesn't like things that are boring. A group that can't articulate a message is boring. No one cares that their library in a tent got knocked down. And, sad as it is, people don't really care when an old lady gets pepper sprayed in the face or a college kid gets a baton to the leg. People hardly cared when the BART cops shot a kid on the subway. Why would anyone be interested in OWS? Call us when something interesting happens, until then we've got angry ex-wives, child molesters, and presidential gaffes to watch.