1964: Our Father

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Latch

you're promoting an illegal action

someone in their early 20s is still a kid, and you become an adult around 25,

two things:

a) "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." --Thomas Jefferson

living in an early century prohibition era is very exciting.

you're painting chemda with an awfully shiesty brush, friend. i think the discussion to be had is internal to them on how they want to run their business. it's a valid conversation; one where nobody is the bad guy. is smoking weed or drinking around/during showtime with guests in house ok; when is it ok. is it ok to have drugs or alcohol present during working office hours; in use and/or people selling it on their property. not a judgment call. artists bring and smoke weed in our studio while we're working; don't nobody come and fucking sell it out of our place. but it's our place and we all agreed to our own policies. one that works for us.

chemda can promote anything she wishes. that shit is protected free speech, brah. she's not a villain. it's up to her and keith to decide how drugs and alcohol fit into their situation. we're creatives; it's around. there's a balance. the important thing is to find it and stick to it so everybody understands the deal and feels comfortable working.

2) bullshit. a person old enough to drink is not a kid. young adults are still adults with agency, autonomy, and enough know how to take responsibility for themselves and their actions. we trust them to drive, drink, vote, enter into contracts, join the military, participate in pornography, receive bank loans, hell, people in their early 20s hold degrees that qualify them to work any number of dangerous or skillful jobs.

early 20 somethings are not stupid, too naive to know better--bless their hearts--, nor are they children. they have all the rights, burdens, and responsibilities to themselves as we do. don't be patronizing.

[Keith]

Abby, you know weed makes "the voice" and you're being a little silly. I know people burnt out from weed and another burnt out from mushrooms. I've seen these people before and after (when they were younger and them now, older). This isn't the norm, but with them it happened and it is a permanent thing. i don't know ANYONE personally that changed this way WITHOUT the aforementioned drugs.

I have no agenda to make this up. I'm fine with weed being legal.

Also, I'm not going to discuss this with you when you get into your disease and how medical marijuana helps save you. You know that's not what we're talking about.

I don't think most pot users would otherwise be taking morphine, prednisone, methotrexate, and beudeconide.

You're like the people I described before. You hear why we shouldn't have medical marijuana while you legitimately need it, so you think that's what I'M saying, and you get angry with me, as if I wanted you dead.

I love you, and I wish you a long life.

[Latch]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

two things:

a) "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." --Thomas Jefferson

living in an early century prohibition era is very exciting.

I agree, it'll be good when it's finally legal everywhere and we laugh at this time like we do alcohol's prohibition time.

Originally Posted by Sparrow

you're painting chemda with an awfully shiesty brush, friend. i think the discussion to be had is internal to them on how they want to run their business. it's a valid conversation; one where nobody is the bad guy. is smoking weed or drinking around/during showtime with guests in house ok; when is it ok. is it ok to have drugs or alcohol present during working office hours; in use and/or people selling it on their property. not a judgment call. artists bring and smoke weed in our studio while we're working; don't nobody come and fucking sell it out of our place. but it's our place and we all agreed to our own policies. one that works for us.

chemda can promote anything she wishes. that shit is protected free speech, brah. she's not a villain. it's up to her and keith to decide how drugs and alcohol fit into their situation. we're creatives; it's around. there's a balance. the important thing is to find it and stick to it so everybody understands the deal and feels comfortable working.

Again, I agree, there's a balance. The question is that balance being pushed when an employee is being given drugs on camera, to smoke, on camera, while he's supposed to be doing a show. Also, yes it's a discussion that they should have, and they are having it, but they're including us. Isn't that the whole point of all this? It's a big open discussion. Of course they can (maybe have) had private discussions and decisions on this, but there's obviously a public aspect to this. Is there a line drawn where we can't talk about pot anymore because it should be private for them? I think I'm missing something.

Yeah Chemda can promote/do stuff.. I didn't say she can't. That doesn't mean I can't argue it on the forums.

I'm glad your setup works for you. I hope KATG comes to a setup that works for them. We're discussing it, weighing the pros and cons, like is intended.

Originally Posted by Sparrow

2) bullshit. a person old enough to drink is not a kid. young adults are still adults with agency, autonomy, and enough know how to take responsibility for themselves and their actions. we trust them to drive, drink, vote, enter into contracts, join the military, participate in pornography, receive bank loans, hell, people in their early 20s hold degrees that qualify them to work any number of dangerous or skillful jobs.

early 20 somethings are not stupid, too naive to know better--bless their hearts--, nor are they children. they have all the rights, burdens, and responsibilities to themselves as we do. don't be patronizing.

I was referring to how on the show it's been said multiple times how people in their early 20s still don't have their shit worked out and are still "kids". Yes, they're officially adults with all the shit that comes with it (good and bad), so yes, they should be allowed to make their own decisions, but at what point do you stop someone from doing something stupid because you're their friend (or their "parents" or whatever). I think this is going to be where we disagree, because I think smoking pot (while it's illegal) on camera and putting it out there is bad, and (I think) you don't. Danny should be allowed to make his own decisions and mistakes, definitely. But, ignoring all the liability/performance stuff previously mentioned, I feel like enabling/encouraging him to do things he might regret later (like illegal drugs on camera) is a bad-friend thing. To quote Jurassic Park, "Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should".

[Latch]

Also, I like that we started quoting people/things, and you chose a founding father, and I chose Jeff Goldblum in a dinosaur movie haha.

[BrianAlt]

Originally Posted by Eric M

Chemda I don't think you hate men. I think you do act superior to them though.

What??? You're insane. Have you met Chemda in person? No way, because if you did you would never think this!

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Latch

To quote Jurassic Park, "Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should".

fuckin' word, man.

i think the pro/con list of using marijuana is a circle jerk. we've had it before. we know where we stand. how it fits into the responsible adult's life and, more specifically, into the KATG workspace is, i think, a more fruitful conversation.

[Keith]

We noticed that age 25 is when people seem to be more grown up, like it's a switch. Then scientists figured out that, scientifically, the brain doesn't finish developing until age 25. We happened to be right. Now we're playing dumb and ignoring all of that.

We're also ignoring all the mental problems Danny has brought up himself over all the time we knew him, as though he's functioning just fine.

Stop punking me already.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

how it fits into the responsible adult's life

sometimes the answer to this question is that it doesn't.

Originally Posted by Keith

We're also ignoring all the mental problems Danny has brought up himself over all the time we knew him, as though he's functioning just fine.
.

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edit: to totally negate my stance, i'm stoned right now and about to get myself some taco bell. dat baja blast doe.

[bithead]

I really enjoyed listening to Sean Tucker ; he's well spoken, open, and has a unique and interesting story to tell about his experiences with religious organizations.

It got me thinking about my family's increased involvement in the church community over the past ~ 3 years...

My parents never attended church, so I grew up without any spiritual influences. I don't believe in a higher power or God-like figure whatsoever. My in-laws attended church periodically, and their children (my wife and her siblings) were actively involved in the church choir for many years. By the time I met my wife, church wasn't a part of her life anymore.

A few years ago, my wife's dad passed away and one of the places she turned to for help with the grief was a local United Church. To make a long-story short, she now attends services regularly, is a member of the choir, and has taken a job there as the Office Administrator.

While I don't attend services with her, I have been to a few, and I can be found helping the church with IT-related things every couple of months. On more than one occasion, members of the church community have helped us too... like driving our family to the airport at 4am, or relocating awkwardly large furniture. Not to mention they helped my wife come to terms with the death of her father.

Perhaps it's the eternal skeptic in me, or maybe it's all of the religion-bashing I hear Keith go on about, but I keep expecting there to be a “gotcha”. But there has been none. It's just a place where members of the community come together to help each other through all that life throws at us.

Full disclosure: I began donating $240/yr once I became a more active participant. Which is more like $200/yr after I get a tax credit for doing so. And as I said, I occasionally donate my technical expertise & time. There has been no guilt or implied obligation to donate – I just felt it was the right thing to do. Hell, the airport drop-off would have cost me over $100. Hardly a money-sucking entity.

Regarding what is preached at this particular United Church... pretty progressive if you ask me. The bible is their go-to guide, but from what I've seen & heard at the services, there is always a positive message, with no anti-gay/lesbian talk, or do-that-and-go-to-hell preaching. I'm certain my wife wouldn't put up with it if she found the sermons, or the church community embracing such hate and fear-mongering.

An exception to the rule? Probably. I can't really say because this is my only real exposure to the church. But I thought it was worth letting others know that, if you find you're feeling the need to be a part of a friendly and helpful community, it can be found at a church. Don't automatically dismiss it because it's something you're unfamiliar with (like I was).

That's not something I thought I'd ever say, being an atheist my entire life, and will probably die an atheist.

[Czarveillance]

It sounds like Chemda repeatedly gets soooo close to understanding Keith's point on the differences between using weed vs alcohol in their place of business then at the last second veers off into an argument of which substance is medically worse for you. The point I think Keith is (mostly) making, especially in regard to Danny, has nothing to do with how healthy/unhealthy it is but how legal/illegal it is. Between pot and alcohol, one of them has a much stronger potential to cause them to lose their business. But hopefully the satisfaction the "advocates" get from sticking it to The Man will keep them happy after they've lost their livelihoods.


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