1990: Atheists United

[Latch]

Originally Posted by MichaelApproved

Why be into Jesus at all? There's so much baggage that comes with Jesus and the Bible, it doesn't seem worth scraping off all the crud to get to the "good stuff."

Yeah, maybe it's not. I guess I don't care if someone uses a (positive) story of Jesus as a way to teach a lesson, or as the base for a sermon. As long as they're pushing the "do unto others" parts of it, that's fine with me.

Originally Posted by MichaelApproved

Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

Revelation 2:22-23

Peace, love and kill children with death.

The Bible has a lot of crazy shit in it. That's not Jesus though, that's God, which are separate people (or whatever).. or at least, not part of a story/parable of Jesus saying "be good to others".

Originally Posted by MichaelApproved

Who else is he, if not for the Son of God?

I've mentioned it before, but if you subtract all the religious stuff, he's just 'a guy'. Look at it not from a world of belief, but just as a fairytale (or bunch of them), and he's the main character.

Originally Posted by MichaelApproved

Sunday Assembly is trying to give the experience of Church without the religious baggage. The Sunday Assembly Local Assemblies » The Sunday Assembly

That's awesome.

Originally Posted by MichaelApproved

Ignoring something does change things. Talking about something is still a form of promotion. That's why they say "there's no such thing as bad publicity" because, as long as you're being talked about, you are relevant and are being promoting in some way. If you stop preaching the gospel, people will stop believing in the religion.

People aren't logical about belief in their religion/Bible (otherwise they likely wouldn't be religious), but I still think there's value in evaluating the Bible as a historical text, in an analytical way. If you can analyse the book logically, you may get through to some people and make them question their beliefs.

Originally Posted by MichaelApproved

They still have religion and a spiritual aspect to them. I believe that it still doesn't teach you good life lessons but it is a watered down version of church.

The fables and fairytales that I want to expose my children to don't involve stoning people for adultery.

Religion is bad in all contexts. A philosophy based on irrational thinking is harmful.

We differ here. I think organised religion is mostly bad (same as you). I don't think someone having a personal belief in some sort of deity, deities, an intelligent cosmic gas, FSM, whatever is necessarily bad. It becomes bad if you use that to oppress others in some way (like, generally, organised religion does). But the belief itself isn't bad. If you find comfort in some personal thing, that's great! Is that religion? Spirituality? It's something. If you observe your own personal beliefs, and want the community feel, (some) UU or The Sunday Assembly sounds fine to me. As long as, as a group, they don't oppress others. Then it's like a club like a bowling club or something.

(Just to put in a disclaimer, I don't have any personal spiritualism)

Originally Posted by MichaelApproved

Ditto.

Amen

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Latch

The Bible has a lot of crazy shit in it. That's not Jesus though, that's God, which are separate people (or whatever).. or at least, not part of a story/parable of Jesus saying "be good to others".

You're in such denial about Jesus being so great that you didn't even look this up. It's easy to look up.

"Well if that's Jesus then that's not the part I mean. I mean the 'Do unto others' part."

What?

Stop praising an asshole.

[Latch]

Jesus isn't all great. He said some bullshit stuff (like that anti-gay stuff you quoted on the show the other day). But he also said some good stuff. It's gray, not black or white.

[MichaelApproved]

Originally Posted by Latch

Yeah, maybe it's not. I guess I don't care if someone uses a (positive) story of Jesus as a way to teach a lesson, or as the base for a sermon. As long as they're pushing the "do unto others" parts of it, that's fine with me.

Would you give the Bible to a child and say "study this book and live by its guidance and moral code?" Of course not because it's riddled with atrocious and immoral stories.

I guess you can pick a handful of stories and use those but why bother? There are many other stories in the world that don't carry the baggage the Bible comes with.

[Keith]

It's very clear that Jesus is a shithead. That's pretty black and white.

I guarantee that Fred Phelps said some human things as well. Is he in the grey too? When do you think the Unitarian church praised Fred's lessons on the good of family?

[Latch]

Originally Posted by MichaelApproved

Would you give the Bible to a child and say "study this book and live by its guidance and moral code?" Of course not because it's riddled with atrocious and immoral stories.

I guess you can pick a handful of stories and use those but why bother? There are many other stories in the world that don't carry the baggage the Bible comes with.

You're right, there are plenty of other things out there that teach lessons/whatever. They chose that one, but I still don't think it was for religious reasons. I wish I had gone a few times to see if Jesus was a constant topic, but I didn't.. so.... I guess this is where we sit.

Originally Posted by Keith

It's very clear that Jesus is a shithead. That's pretty black and white.

I guarantee that Fred Phelps said some human things as well. Is he in the grey too? When do you think the Unitarian church praised Fred's lessons on the good of family?

Good point on Phelps. I'm guessing the "church" wasn't praising Fred's lessons. Jesus could have been a shithead, but there's still (good) lessons in the 'do unto others' stuff. As Michael got to, they could have chosen someone else to talk about that day. They didn't.. I don't 'blame' them for it, and still don't see it as them doing it for religious reasons.

[Eric M]

Anytime I've seen Jonah hill on Jon Stewart or Colbert I feel like he's a weirdo who's trying to be nice and it comes off very fake to me. I don't like him. What an awesome guest list you guys had this week. Loved it.

[TAFKAP]

It's my understanding that Christianity as we know it was invented by Constantine when he was trying to build an empire and unite the people under one religion. The New Testament of the Bible was written centuries after Jesus would have existed. Jesus wasn't actually born on December 25th. Christmas was adapted from a Pagan holiday. Also Jesus the man never claimed to be the son of God. It was 100% made up for political reasons.

When I was a freshman in college, I joined a Christian fellowship and attended all their meetings and made friends with them just because I thought they were nice people and wanted more friends. Sure, they were all nut cases, but so am I. Then one day the head Bitch in charge found out that I am half Jewish and basically called me "an abomination in the eyes of God."

I'm not saying that all Christians are bad people, but they are definitely all ignorant people. They are brainwashed into thinking that it's wrong to question what you've been taught to accept as fact. What's worse is they think it's their responsibility to help others find God. They go through life with blinders on, and it's all so they can have happiness in the afterlife, which we all know doesn't exist. That's why, as much as they anger me with their hatred of people different from them, I ultimately feel bad for them because they will waste their lives longing for some kind of payback that's never coming to them.

[thirteen]

I don't like the idea of these religions or clubs, including Atheists United. I think it was mentioned on the show before and Chemda has been converted, but I haven't been yet. I don't like harping on one side or any type of extreme (yes, Keith, I'm using that word).

I love the differences in culture. If there was a way to separate it from religion, I would take it. But some parts of culture are derived from religion. Hopefully we go more the way of atheism and get rid of the nonsense religious beliefs but maintain the different cultures.

[MichaelApproved]

To add more to the highway cleanup discussion, here are some pictures of us cleaning the highway.

For more pictures or if you're in the Los Angeles area and want to volunteer, check out this page Adopt-A-Highway Cleanup - Atheists United