2027: Peace Nazi

[John Harvey]

This was a hard episode to listen to because it felt a lot like KATG and Christian were arguing different points a lot of the time. Christian had some good things to say and it's a shame you guys shouted him down so hard at points and escalated the argument to a point where neither side was actually making much sense any more. Let your guests talk and don't ridicule them so much for trying to make a nuanced point. "Is Israel right, yes or no?" is a pointless question as Christian rightly pointed out, not because Israel shouldn't be able to defend itself, but that it doesn't address the problems that are happening right now. Should Israel be defending itself the way it is right now? No, I don't think it should be.

Look at the facts - hundreds of rockets are fired into Israel. Rockets with very short range, poor guidance, low yield. Rockets that Israel has a warning system for, and the capability to shoot down. Rockets that result in very few deaths due to Israel's preparedness for them. Is it wrong that rockets are fired by HAMAS? Of course it is. But the reality of it is that Israel can for the most part cope with these attacks.

HAMAS are fighting a guerrilla war using the relatively low tech weapons at their disposal. They do not have an army and billions of dollars of weapons and technology. They are fighting for the area that they consider their home, an area that has been shrunk mile by mile from the 1960s to the current day. They're a desperate and angry people fueled by ancient, boneheaded hatred and extremist religion. They can't be reasoned with at this point, their fighters are created from the brothers and sons of people that have been killed by Israel. And they're not a single organised force, they're dozens, hundreds of individual cells, each with a cache of missiles, each doing what they think they can, so the likelihood of them listening to ceasefire terms and the terms of "war" as it's understood on a national level is unlikely to happen. America has tried fighting this before in Vietnam and the gulf wars (which I would argue we lost since the country is such an abysmal shit show right now) - the west is geared up to fight wars against other armies, there just is not a viable way to beat guerrilla forces without systematically killing all the people.

In the past few weeks, Israel have blown up the only power station left in Gaza, destroyed hospitals, schools and hundreds of homes, leaving those alive with no place to live, and insane with grief and anger. If you are Palestinian, how do you live in that area now (which is blockaded so you can't even leave)? These people are the lowest ring of society in an area of the world not exactly known for it's reasonable and level headed approach to conflict. Yes, the terrorism is wrong. I think maybe there are even elements of HAMAS that would see the martyrdom of Gaza to be in Islam's favour, since they must understand they're tactics are only going to end in their own destruction.

I've been thinking about this for the past few weeks and I've come to the following horrifying conclusion: the only way this will end is if either Israel withdraws and draws up new boundaries to make a Palestinian state (which will never happen because it would be giving into terrorism and nations have egos to maintain), or Israel will have to wipe the Gaza strip and the Palestinian people from the face of the map. And when you consider just how small the Gaza strip is, that's an achievable goal.

I think the problem with a pure black and white view on this is that it takes a willful suspension of empathy. The Gazans might be our 'enemy' as a militant muslim people, but they are still people and they do not deserve this treatment. They deserve the freedom to have a home they can feel safe in just as we all do.

And I'm sure this post will have me called a HAMAS supporter or Keith will say I'm goofy or something, that's the nature of the show and I get it. Just think about this stuff from both sides for a bit is all I'm saying.

[AlyssaN]

One of the things I heard come up in the episode a couple times, and I've heard come up in the general debate a lot is the number of civilians killed on each side of the war.

I want to throw in some additional information related to this, take from it what you will. Here is an article that outlines some, but not all of what I'm saying here - Hamas tells Palestinian civilians to stay in homes in face of Israeli warnings | Jewish Telegraphic Agency

Before attacking civilian areas, Israel has sent warning to residents, encouraging them to evacuate the area. Hamas responding by telling these residents not to leave, and in some cases forcing them back into their homes. Hamas offers no warning before attacking civilian areas, but Israel's defensive systems and strategies allow them to warn their citizens and encourage them to move to bomb shelters.

When we look at the number of civilian deaths, it's important to not blame Israel for being effective at protecting their citizens. It is also important to consider why Hamas is demanding that their citizens ignore warnings.

[John Harvey]

And perhaps consider if there are indeed human shields used on such a large scale, why Israel is so prepared to shoot through them? IMO this is another example of why traditional warfare doesn't work when trying to fight a guerrilla force. Is this kind of collateral damage acceptable? HAMAS's ammunition is the people of Gaza.

[stryfe]

For those of you with Droids and feeling pro-Israel.


With Google Play's 'Bomb Gaza' Game You, Too, Can Indiscriminately Slaughter Civilians | Crooks and Liars

Also, my solution for the Palestine/Israel conflict is to have the US/Israel let the Palestinians build casinos in the West Bank and the Gaza strip. Look how well the Native Americans are doing since we gave them casinos in lieu of small pox blankets and taking their land!

[New here]

Peace nazi was so good, "the final solution is we all are peaceful"

Is grammer important? Consider:
"Let's eat, grandma!"
"Let's eat grandma!"
One is a bit more sinister.

Double check before you cannibalize a loved one.

[Tomrl94]

I don't have an opinion about this episode.

[J. Canines]

There's nothing quite like an Israeli/ Palestinian/ Gaza Stripper-ian conflict to make you appreciate living elsewhere.

Places where there's less religion, plenty of books and of course: wifi.

[Scumhook]

Originally Posted by starscream

Did this incessant caller guy pass Jesse Joyce on the all time guest list yet? Just say yes in case that's been his goal all along.

IKR.

Can this fucking cunt please fucking say his fucking name next time.

The only thing worse than the middle east conflict is a fucking caller to a talk show who doesn't identify him/her/xe's self

[Bucho]

Mel Gibson or Hamas Secretary of Defense had me laughing so hard on my way to work this morning I damn near had to pull my truck to the side of the road.

Originally Posted by Strawdog

The media has been extremely unhelpful to Israel by just reporting the rising bodycount. Completely ignoring Israel's sophisticated Iron Dome defences that keep casualties way down whereas Hamas has treated their population as collateral to gain international support.

I learned about the Iron Dome from watching regular mainstream media reports.

JUST SAYING.

[bw81]

I thought announcing the day of the week was a trick to convince us that the shows were recorded on the day that they came out - I checked my app on Wenesday and it said there wasn a live show for 96 hours at the time.

Sneaky sneaky, Keith