2090: Your Pad or Mine?

[thirteen]

Originally Posted by jaredv1214

This isn't about people in general though, it's about Keith's determination. It is completely his prerogative to wait for information, information he has made an open invitation for people to send him, before he makes up his mind.

Look up Ben Roethlisberger before you keep posting. It's not that hard.

[jaredv1214]

Originally Posted by rodimusprime

Roethlisberger has been accused of rape 3 times.

It's odd b/c even the things Big Ben did at parties seems completely fucked up. Pulling his dick out and walking up to women was one of his "moves" at parties and shit. Forcing his hands up skirts and all kinds of other shit. Just creepy.
Then the deleting of files from phones of witnesses by his body guards and him saying the girl "fell and I helped her up"? It doesn't sound good.

Then reading the second accuser's account of the incident? Seemed very damning to me.

Dude was accused of rape at least twice that we know of and settled out of court once. Statistically less than 3% of rape accusations are false.

And I agree the information was much harder to find than the Ray Rice / Adrian Peterson stuff. I think Roethlisberger benefited from this happening just before the TMZ era of sports journalism started. He also benefited from the fact that our society doesn't talk openly about rape in detail b/c many feel it's not in good taste to go into detail like that in the national media.

See, this is different than anything that Liza or Megan brought up. Keith asked for this information. At least to me, it seemed like Keith was unaware of any of this information. I won't speak for him, but I believe that when Keith sees this, he will form an opinion one way or another about his feelings concerning Ben. I am not saying anyone was falsely accusing Ben, but wanting evidence shouldn't be something that people get angry with Keith over.

[jaredv1214]

Originally Posted by thirteen

Look up Ben Roethlisberger before you keep posting. It's not that hard.

I am not arguing over what the facts are, I am saying that, during the taping of this episode, Keith didn't have the facts and wanting to see them isn't wrong. Please look at the whole post because I believe I state that rather clearly.

[Lanfear]

The way Keith talked about it rubbed me the completely wrong way and to be perfectly honest (as much as I am convinced both you and Keith are perfectly decent guys) you immediately jumping in with "the females in the room twisted his words around" is not helping at all.

We were asked to just trust Keith that he saw evidence for Pat doing shit and most people were (rightly) saying that the girls in question shouldn't have to provide proof.
But in the Ben case where there is similar amounts of hearsay Keith and you both outright and immediately jumped to "unless there is hard evidence I choose to believe this dude is a saint"

You fucking made me wiki that Ben dude and even if he may not have raped anybody he probably is a creep sometimes:
- "Roethlisberger was be suspended without pay for the first six games of the 2010 season due to a violation of the NFL's personal conduct policy."
- "Furthermore, the accuser wrote to the D.A. through her lawyer expressing she no longer wanted to pursue criminal charges[15] because the level of media attention would make a criminal trial too "intrusive" of a personal experience. "
isn't that the EXACT same reason why the girls in Pats case don't wanna talk and we were all (the non-idiots at least) perfectly fine with it?

If you ask me its at least likely that Ben is just is clever enough to not get filmed hitting women and has his bodyguards and lawyers on quick damage duty. Also if things were settled out of court there will not be evidence because the main purpose of that settlement is often to have a nondisclosure agreement to make sure that no proof gets anywhere.


TLDR the discussion sounded weird to me and "sounding weird" is not something I can empirically proof or defend

[jaredv1214]

Originally Posted by Lanfear

The way Keith talked about it rubbed me the completely wrong way and to be perfectly honest (as much as I am convinced both you and Keith are perfectly decent guys) you immediately jumping in with "the females in the room twisted his words around" is not helping at all.

We were asked to just trust Keith that he saw evidence for Pat doing shit and most people were (rightly) saying that the girls in question shouldn't have to provide proof.
But in the Ben where there is similar amounts of hearsay Keith and you both outright and immediately jumped to "unless there is hard evidence I choose to believe this dude is a saint"

You fucking made me wiki that Ben dude and even if he may not have raped anybody he probably is a creep sometimes:
- "Roethlisberger was be suspended without pay for the first six games of the 2010 season due to a violation of the NFL's personal conduct policy."
- "Furthermore, the accuser wrote to the D.A. through her lawyer expressing she no longer wanted to pursue criminal charges[15] because the level of media attention would make a criminal trial too "intrusive" of a personal experience. "
isn't that the EXACT same reason why the girls in Pats case don't wanna talk and we were all (he non-idiots at least) perfectly fine with is?

If you ask me its at least likely that Ben is just is clever enough to not get filmed hitting women and has his bodyguards and lawyers on quick damage duty. Also if things were settled out of court there will not be evidence because the main purpose of that settlement is often to have a nondisclosure agreement to make sure that no proof gets anywhere.


TLDR the discussion sounded weird to me and "sounding weird" is not something I can empirically proof or defend

You feeling weird about the way the conversation went or that the discussion sounded weird to you is perfectly understandable. And I wasn't saying that "the females in the room twisted his words around." They were twisting his words around, they just happened to all be female. If they were all men who did the same thing, I would have said that they were twisting Keith's words around just the same.

Like I said, the difference between Pat and Ben, is that Keith knew the facts available, through first hand accounts of victims and witnesses, about Pat, but didn't have any of the facts concerning the Ben cases. I am not talking about whether Ben is guilty, it's whether Keith should have had to decide how he felt when he didn't know any of the facts.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Lanfear

Keith and you both outright and immediately jumped to "unless there is hard evidence I choose to believe this dude is a saint"

Do you know what the quotes mean when you use them?

And did you really type that with no shame?

[Lanfear]

sorry I misused the quotes but yeah I stand by what I typed

[Keith]

You're insane.

[Lanfear]

Yep super insane, I had a whole debate with myself this morning on whether I'd be ready for the inevitable post from you calling me out.

You hate being criticized and are clever enough to find any flaw in what I would post.

[iheartnihilism]

To borrow from Keith, he couldn't be any clearer. Like courts, he wants more info/proof to come to his opinion on whether this guy is guilty or not. Why is this such a crazy request?

Lets just jump straight to the crazy then: Keith only feels this way because Ben is on his team, anyone who agrees with Keith is only doing so because they like Keith, and all the girls are having knee jerk crazy feminist reactions to the request for more proof of rape. There. Hopefully I saved us pages of bullshit arguing.