2187: Flood Warning

[Keith]

I hear what you're saying. Cocaine and heroin aren't legal, but I'm able to pick up a coffee with as many espresso shots as I desire at the corner store?! Hypocritical!

[Sparrow]

only if you're white.

[Thumbnail]

Consumption of all drugs is legal in Portugal since 2000. The death rates have decreased and so has HIV rates related to injectable drugs. Drug related offenses (and incarcerations) have gone down by about 25% over the last 10 years.

It's a question of shifting the focus from the consumer to the dealer. The dealers can now be jailed from a couple of years up to 25 years in prison but if you smoke or shoot up or whatever you will not go to jail (unless you also deal).

But if I do find it fair that drug users should not be punished, comparing heroin to alcohol is a stretch, both in penal matters and as a health issue. Not all drinkers are alcoholics but most heroin users are addicted and will need some kind of detox or end up dead. A lot of drinkers reach old ages but not continuing heroin users. Sure, when it becomes abusive it becomes destructive, but so does smoking or overeating. Heroin (meth, crack) just becomes abusive way faster than any kind of alcohol.

Even though I strongly believe in not punishing the user, not all drugs are born the same. One cannot compare marijuna to heroin, either (and that's a very common fear tactic for parents, oh the gateway drugs, the panic, the horror!).

[The Girl]

Thumbnail you're right. I was making the wrong comparison of heroine and alcohol. There is such a thing as a casual drinker but I haven't heard of casual heroine users.

I made that mistake in trying to prove how skewed we are about the safety of drug use.

I was putting them in the same category: drugs. My mistake was comparing them too closely in danger.

[zappbrannigan]

Originally Posted by Keith

I hear what you're saying. Cocaine and heroin aren't legal, but I'm able to pick up a coffee with as many espresso shots as I desire at the corner store?! Hypocritical!

Now we're talking.

[My Sweaty Balls]

Originally Posted by Thumbnail

Consumption of all drugs is legal in Portugal since 2000. The death rates have decreased and so has HIV rates related to injectable drugs. Drug related offenses (and incarcerations) have gone down by about 25% over the last 10 years.

It's a question of shifting the focus from the consumer to the dealer. The dealers can now be jailed from a couple of years up to 25 years in prison but if you smoke or shoot up or whatever you will not go to jail (unless you also deal).

But if I do find it fair that drug users should not be punished, comparing heroin to alcohol is a stretch, both in penal matters and as a health issue. Not all drinkers are alcoholics but most heroin users are addicted and will need some kind of detox or end up dead. A lot of drinkers reach old ages but not continuing heroin users. Sure, when it becomes abusive it becomes destructive, but so does smoking or overeating. Heroin (meth, crack) just becomes abusive way faster than any kind of alcohol.

Even though I strongly believe in not punishing the user, not all drugs are born the same. One cannot compare marijuna to heroin, either (and that's a very common fear tactic for parents, oh the gateway drugs, the panic, the horror!).

Q.What's the collective noun for a group of geriatric heroin addicts?

A. The Rolling Stones

[Keith]

When they quit heroin do we say congratulations?

Why?

When Keith Richards keeps saying, "Its good to be here. It's good to be anywhere, really," why is it always funny?

If you saw a man enjoying drinking bleach should you stop him?

[DaveNJ]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

the war on drugs is very profitable. there's lots of people making money per body in the private prison system. so, whether or not philosophically it's a good idea, it's a moot conversation until incarceration in this country stops being a commodity.

As far as this is concerned, it's really a canard. Only 20% of the US prison population is in for drug offenses, and that includes folks moving serious weight who basically everyone agrees should be in jail. Our prison system is really big, but it's that big because we put a lot of violent offenders in jail for a long time and because violent crime is a lot higher in the US than in comparable developed countries.

The percentage of prisoners in on drug offenses has been declining steadily since 1997, actually.

Incarcerated Felon Population by Type of Crime Committed, 1974-2012 - Felon Voting - ProCon.org

Moreover, contract facilities for federal prisons, which have a higher rate of drug offenders incarcerated, are primarily for housing foreign nationals awaiting repatriation.

BOP: Contract Prisons

So really, it's not a moot conversation for two reasons. 1. The rate is already going down and 2. The most profitable federal holding facilities aren't generally drug-related.

I think a much bigger challenge here is that of addiction and its implications for other crimes, like property crime. Breaking and entering to score money for oxy is not a drug crime, but it's definitely drug-related. I'm not sure how decriminalization or legalization helps to fix that, though.

[Sparrow]

i think nationalized healthcare, better standards of education, and access to reproductive options does that trick.

[viciouskitten]

There is a middle ground between allowing unrestricted access to hard drugs and the system we have now. Decriminalization wouldn't necessarily mean that you would be able to buy heroin at a store like beer. It could mean a focus on arresting the dealers of the drugs not the addicts. And if a user is caught they might have mandatory counseling or community service. Both of which would be better and less expensive for our society than putting them in prison. You can decriminalize something without making it legal to sell. Like NYC has done with weed. If you have a small amount you won't get thrown in jail. Its still not legal though.