2197: Transrachel

[invader]

Short answer; in America, yes. If you have black anywhere in your family tree you are considered black. Even if you are Lilly white with blonde hair and blue eyes. People may assume you are white but once they get to know your background you would be referred to as mixed race or black. Barack Obama is as much white as he is black but he is thought of as our nations first black president.

[snowflake]

This was such an amazing show; the guests were all great and it was really cool to hear everyone weigh in and say things that (I know I'm not the only person whose been waiting to hear) be said in media! Thank you guys for being there (and making it funny so my heart and head don't explode)!

[dannyhatch]

Originally Posted by txmikey45

Am I the only one that did not know that Danny has a kid? Boy? Girl? Does he ever see or take care of his kid? That was the most shocking part of this show for me.

I don't have a kid. Rosa donated her eggs to her friends through a surrogate and is very close to her biological son and daughter, but they're raised by their dads.

[FingerLakes]

Originally Posted by Apia

I think what she said about white men was racist.
" white men don't know how to talk to black girls."

On that note 4/5 times when I talk to white dudes on fuck apps, AFTER we've been chatting already they feel the need to ask if I "like white dick." or really need to tell me that they "love black guys"

It's seems to be a thing with them. I don't run around telling all the Asians I see that I wanna lick their pits cuz they're so sexy. I keep those thoughts to myself until we start fucking

[Rosa]

guys. how has nobody written a think piece about how Michael Jackson was the original transracial figure? He changed his skin color AND his facial features to convey a white identity...

[Sparrow]

like Rachel, MJ was a hot mess crazy head.

[Rosa]

Am also reminded of this fiasco from 2008...

Did the Clinton Campaign Doctor Obama Footage to Make Him 'Blacker'? | WIRED

How light or dark is Barack Obama's skin? Depends on your political stance... - Not Exactly Rocket Science : Not Exactly Rocket Science

obviously this is a different issue from the Dolezal fiasco, but it raises important questions about how the perception of race is related to political leanings, implicit judgements, and how its manipulation can be (and has been!) used to garner fear and votes...

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

like Rachel, MJ was a hot mess crazy head.

Maybe we're not comparing the two because subconsciously we don't want to equate "hot mess crazy head" with "pedophile."

Also when I recently did The Hot Mess Comedy Hour I said I don't think I'm a hot mess. And thank god now!

[Hennessy]

Originally Posted by Apia

And yes, when Rachel would find somebody in her family, somebody far in the past, who was black, What then?

Let her do that work and make those connections. I am rooting for her to do so. Stop with the self tanner and false identification and find out who in your family you can connect with. Not, like, for pretend. For realsies.

[Hennessy]

Originally Posted by Kultcher

Almost the whole time? I'm not easily riled.

Anyway, tackling a few points. You write:



Then in answer to the question of "What gives someone a legitimate claim to blackness?", you say:



Is that not a contradiction? Or am I misunderstand you?



I don't think I ever defined blackness. Literally the entire purpose of everything I've written is to try and point out that "blackness" is a super complicated thing.

I don't know what "blackness" means. But I know the blackness that was represented on this episode was not the blackness I feel. What makes one more valid than the other?

What I'm digging at in all of this is trying to pin down the intersections between oppression, skin color, and bloodline. How far can you pull one of those strings before a person can claim blackness? I don't think it's as simple as everyone is making it out to be.



You're right, "feeling" your race is a nebulous concept. I "feel" white insofar as I am surrounded by white people who generally accept me. It's a passive thing. There are some rare times when I feel black, when I feel unwelcome - that's more of an active thing. Does that make sense?

As for how that applies to Dolezal, I'm not sure. Did she feel black in the same way that I feel white (passively)?



Yes, but there is a line that gets crossed sometimes. Living in a victim mindset can make a black person see all white people as hateful, ignorant racists. It can make a woman see all men as violent rapists. Those things simply aren't true.

The problem I have with all that is that it undermines the real conversation. When an ultra-feminist says that all men are rapists, it makes all of us non-rapist guys think, "This lady is nuts." Whatever valid points she might be making get lost because we either a) write her off entirely as crazy, or b) focus so intently on debunking the idea that all men are rapists, that the conversation grinds to a halt.



To clarify, the point I was trying to make about living in upstate NY near a bunch of probably-racists was that I am probably more likely to run into a racist than Katiuska. Just statistically. I know I am going to get shit for this, but I'll be honest: I felt like the picture she was painting was hyperbolic, and I found some of her views about white people regressive and prejudicial.

To illustrate, let's say I perceive the level of racism in my day-to-day life as 3 out of 10. I feel like Katiuska is at like 8 out of 10 (at least that is how she came off to me). I can't reconcile that big a gulf, and that's why I am skeptical.

I know, it's not my place to say, I don't live her life, etc. And I'm sorry for that, just trying to be transparent here about why I feel the way I do.

And the "Nigga, please" was obviously a joke. So was the big dick thing. This is heavy stuff. Trying to bring some levity.



I don't remember specifically. I just recall some very harsh words. I may be misremembering, and I imagine you were playing it up for the show. So, comment withdrawn.



But why? You're acting like my argument is too ridiculous to even comprehend, but I don't think it is. I should have chosen my words more carefully.

I wasn't trying to suggest that if someone called Rachel Dolezal a nigger, that that is equal to calling an actual black person a nigger. But it's not irrelevant. It's not without meaning. She would feel something. She would feel that hate.

What's that worth? Fuck if I know. But I don't believe that just because she could choose to go back to being white if things "got real," that that invalidates everything.

Also this begs the question: if Rachel Dolezal had gotten some kind of (imaginary) surgery that permanently made her black, took away that choice, would we interpret any discrimination against her differently?

You deny your black experience but claim your victimhood, admitting you've gotten looks and slurs.
You deny your "blackness" but claim your stereotype of a "big dick."
You say you feel more white but apparently and live among more racists than is in NYC: the sardine can of an array of individuals from a million different backgrounds and religions.

This is just another example of a deep self hatred planted inside of you by our culture and society. No one wants to be a victim but unless we acknowledge it it will continue. Denying your identity and trying to ignore history Of course we don't walk around every day being harassed or hissed at (unless you're a woman in NYC lol).
This isn't a martyrdom contest. It's just a discussion on a culturally relevant topic that has been played down for so long that we need to kick up the dust a bit to finish the work. The difference between you and me is that I can admit and see it. I didn't always. But I speak about it so I can move away from it and embrace myself more. Thank you for your forgiveness but it doesn't count from someone that denies the connection so heartily as you.

The real forgiveness has to come from me. And I can do that by accepting and knowing myself. Changing what I can and accepting what I can't.

You are arguing in circles, with points I didn't make. The judgement comes from what pigment you are. The self hatred comes from the judgement that still exists. It works into us in various ways. It's quiet and sneaky. To deny ourselves is to deny history. We forget. We don't move forward.

It all boils down to: identifying with our truth. Not what we want our truth to be. Only then can we change things.

If you are making any other arguments than that, its a different conversation.