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View Poll Results: Have you been sexually harassed at work?
I'm a woman, and yes 9 25.71%
I'm a man, and yes 4 11.43%
No 22 62.86%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-28-2017, 01:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
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On a totally unrelated note, and what I came to say...

Chemda, you're really making me think about stuff recently. Your comment about being addicted to addicts rings very true to me. They're always so exciting and it feels so good to rush in and save the day.

That and the questions you're raising. There was a lot of provocative talk in today's episode that took me to issues I hadn't thought about. Thank you.

EDIT:

Keith, you know I love you too. I don't say it enough because it's hard to communicate emotions via text but you've been very formative to me. I respect you both a lot for who you are and the journeys you're taking.
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Last edited by kaligula; 11-28-2017 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 11-28-2017, 03:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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just overheard "ice cream machine is down" at lunch today - happens afternoon & evening here too - I've never been to a fast food place near closing.

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The ice cream machine is often "broken" near closing time or when it needs to be refiled.
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Old 11-28-2017, 03:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
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re Letterman, from 2009 And the Corden report? I'll let you decide if it should be in the same league as the others.
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Old 11-28-2017, 05:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm just so tired of people using empty identity politics rhetoric to shut down conversation.
ya know, there are more than a few folks here in my hills that have bunkers full of weapons and ammunition. i see 3 per center tattoos around. it is not empty identity politics. it's literal bunkers full of weapons and ammunition and people who are /psyched/ to have an excuse to use them just, ya know, in my backyard. good Christian white folks with good Christian children who can shoot better than you and stand for our national anthem.
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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All this sexual harassment stuff makes me sad for Pee Wee Herman.
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Old 11-29-2017, 08:21 AM   #16 (permalink)
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The above figures exclude 9/11, obviously or Islamic terror would simply dwarf non-Islamic terror.
The fact that there is a group which calls itself a state, occupies territory, and has supported massacres like the Bataclan also helps. That the only groups likely to deploy WMD on U.S. soil almost all happen to be Islamic may be another factor.
And if the figures went back to 1776 and included the slaughter of Native Americans and Slaves we would see a huge spike that 9/11 would still not have touched. How you dice your data always has an affect on the results, we could go back to Columbus or we could stop at WWII, or start at the Spanish Inquisition or the Crusades but Christians usually dismiss such comparisons as if the affects are so long ago it has no affect on today. The colonization of the world by white christian nations has certainly inflicted plenty of terror on the native populations and left a lasting mark. But I guess it's not terrorism if a nation's military does it?
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Old 11-29-2017, 09:59 AM   #17 (permalink)
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...But I guess it's not terrorism if a nation's military does it?
That's a controversial topic. The intentional targeting of civilians in order to spread fear is often referred to as "terrorism" in an informal context.

International humanitarian law (which is unfortunately bullshit and not a real law) would consider military acts against civilians with the purpose of spreading terror to be terrorism.

Any consideration in an international context could only really go back as far as post-WWII since that's the first time anyone seriously considered not engaging in state terrorism.

In the United States, there exist State and Federal definitions of terrorism which vary but since it's usually tried at a Federal level only the Federal definiton matters:

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[T]he term 'terrorism' means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents.
If we want to shift the conversation toward illegitimate violence, then Muslims definitely have a lot more to fear from Westerners than we do from them. The sheer carnage wrought through the Middle East due to criminal malicious Western interference over the past ~100 years makes all terrorist attacks combined look like a pin-prick.

I'd happily see George W. Bush, Cheney, et al. brought before the Hague and hanged by the neck until dead.

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...good Christian white folks with good Christian children who can shoot better than you and stand for our national anthem...
You're right about this. Some of these motherfuckers shoot like they were born with guns for arms. It'll be a long while before I'm able to compete with that shit.
Survival and tactical training itself is cool, but the enormous and dominant racist and anti-semitic cohort sours the scene for me.

I don't mean to demean your experience. Thank you for engaging with me so civilly as always.

Racism and stupidity are definitely dominant contributary factors in that group. They're extremely safe from terror and having an "other" enemy is a lot of fun.

There are plenty of other people who's fears are very real. Any public figure who has left Islam has legitimate fears for their life.



Ayaan Hirsi Ali for example promotes reform of Islam, is very intelligent and probably isn't motivated by racism. She is the target of multiple assassination plots.

Salman Rushdie has never come off as racist, but he had an entire state sic terrorists on him over a book.

In New York in the 21st century (our host's shared experience), there have been 2 attacks not due to Islamic extremism; a white-supremacist who stabbed a black man named Timothy Caughman to death in order to combat interracial relationships and an alleged black-supremacist who murdered two police officers in retaliation for the shootings of Michael Brown and Eric Garner.
The other 9 plots were all Islamist and were the only bombings.

Worldwide, incidents related to Islam absolutely dominate the charts. The people most likely to be victims are other Muslims.
https://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2011/195555.htm

"Sunni extremists accounted for the greatest number of terrorist attacks and fatalities for the third consecutive year. More than 5,700 incidents were attributed to Sunni extremists, accounting for nearly 56 percent of all attacks and about 70 percent of all fatalities...

...Secular, political, and anarchist groups were the next largest category of perpetrators, conducting 2,283 attacks with 1,926 fatalities..."

As someone inclined towards secular political anarchism, I certainly don't want extremists associated with the peaceful wings of ideologies.

I'm not trying to spread a message of hate, or to deny the stupid and racist elements that definitely exist and are worth discussing. Just to accurately represent the spectrum of reality.

EDIT: Removed a weird irrelevant tangent. Fixed typo.

P.S. The term "black-supremacist" is included mostly because it's a interestingly quixotic movement. In no way is this intended to imply equivalence with the much more serious threat of white-supremacy.

Last edited by kaligula; 11-29-2017 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:33 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I don't mean to demean your experience. Thank you for engaging with me so civilly as always.

Racism and stupidity are definitely dominant contributary factors in that group. They're extremely safe from terror and having an "other" enemy is a lot of fun.

I'm not trying to spread a message of hate, or to deny the stupid and racist elements that definitely exist and are worth discussing. Just to accurately represent the spectrum of reality.
i'm making efforts to be less of a dick about things.

what i'm hearing from you is that at present globally the extremist Islam folks, ya know the folks blowing up shrines and whatnot, are the more pressing big scope problem whereas you feel white supremacy and Christian extremism isn't as urgent or active or destructive, which i will disagree with. for me, i'm not trying to derail your conversation, i'm acknowledging there is a similar problem in our hands we have power to do something about. and there's probably some baggage and soft spot-edness on my end being from the culture growing these fuckwads. there was a KKK hung on a building in the downtown square here and there was a shocking lot of turning a blind eye to these kind of antics. it's hard for me to downplay or let go of a shrug to its significance. this isn't good ole boy fun, a hoy hoy stupid dumb dumbs. they have an arsenal. it's normalized to a surreal degree. christ, their brother ilk occupied a federal bird sanctuary what was it last year? shrug. they turned weaponry on the National Guard. silence. it emboldens them.

can my European babies touch on this from y'alls experience with the wave of zealous nationalist white creepo bullshit going on there? especially in the wake of Brexit.
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
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We have lots of Islamic people here and it's fine. Like always, the more religious people are, the more difficult.
But for the most it's a normal part of our life. I interact with Muslims everyday everywhere and it's not exciting or special at all. They are just normal people. surprise!!!
I gave a seminar to a small group of physicians assistants and all of them happened to be Muslims from different countries . ( ok, their employers are Muslim too)
I asked them what they don't like about patients and they said " if they don't speak German and expect us to speak Arabic"
We all have the same problems.
Just don't take ANY religion too seriously and talk to everyone.
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Old 11-29-2017, 07:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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...what i'm hearing from you is that at present globally the extremist Islam folks, ya know the folks blowing up shrines and whatnot, are the more pressing big scope problem whereas you feel white supremacy and Christian extremism isn't as urgent or active or destructive, which i will disagree with...
Thank you again. I don't hold this position. I believe Christian extremism, particularly those Dominionist types (or whatever) to be much more dangerous than Islamist radicals.

Jihadis are mostly a bunch of loser fuck-ups. The likely worst they can achieve is to detonate a stolen Russian nuke in a port somewhere. Other than that, it's just constant little bullshit. Important to deal with but survivable.

Christian extremists are some real wackos, and they hold significant influence over the greatest fighting force the world has ever known. They're playing with greater powers, and are more likely to trigger a third world war.

I'm trying to counter thought-terminating clichés. An explanation of a phenomenon should be parsimonious, predictive, precise, accurate and have explanatory power within a defined range.

Saying "racism", or similar isn't good enough unless these factors can be quantified and compared with other factors.

In this case, a lot of people have very good reason to be more afraid of Islamic terrorism than other forms. It isn't fair to call these people racist. We should listen to their concerns and consider their safety.
Also a lot of racists love Islamist terrorism because it gives them an "other" to hate. Fuck them too.
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