2808: Everything’s Fine

[astrokahn]

Originally Posted by Lord of the Cock Rings

If anecdotal evidence is something you would like to consider then please consider this:
My mother was born in 1940 (I'm old). The Diphtheria vaccine was becoming widely available around that time. My mother's parents were debating about whether or not they should get her vaccinated. The debate went something like:
"I'm from a family of 11 children and none of us ever got diphtheria"
"I'm from a family of 13 kids and none of us ever got it either, maybe it's not so important"

They were overheard by a coworker who said, "I was from a family of 9 kids. When diphtheria came through our house, I was the only child who survived. get her vaccinated" and they did.

Since you don't hear about diphtheria outbreaks anymore (thanks to the effectiveness of the fucking vaccine) you think "ahh what's the worst that could happen?" Your kids could need junior sized coffins, that's what.

Diphtheria vaccine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diphtheria_vaccine

It's a short read and well worth your time.

What I meant more is if you see or hear people's personal stories of injury (in particular) after vaccination, is that worth considering at all when deciding on vaccinating or not?

[astrokahn]

Originally Posted by Apia

Everyone who works in a Pharma company gets his kids vaccinated. Every CEO. Why if it's so bad?

Apia I am not ignoring you, I have lots of questions for you because you work in the medical field, I'm just at work so I am tight on time. They're coming! (The questions)

[astrokahn]

Originally Posted by Lord of the Cock Rings

I think that Bob pointed out why it's not. The vaccine makers (Scary Big Pharma) don't deny that there can be adverse reactions. they carefully document and publish such reactions.

Would a 1:500 chance of fever deter you from vaccinating against a deadly disease? That's in the range of where these incidences lie for most vaccines.

You say that you aren't prone to conspiratorial thinking but the content of your posts implies otherwise.
"Big Pharma" doesn't cover this up and doesn't make shitloads of money from vaccines. It's one of their their lowest profit margins, literally pennies per dose. Far from increasing your child's risk of becoming sick, vaccines GREATLY reduce it. These are facts, all of them. Anyone telling you differently is misinformed or has an ulterior motive.

TL;DR, No you shouldn't consider anecdotal evidence when there is actual, solid, real evidence.

I think we are differing on what we each consider a conspiracy to be, but I'm not sure how just yet. And it's not my intention here to drag on a conversation to avoid pointed arguments in terms of what you are saying here; I'm actually trying to break down my own thinking so if I seem to be routing around things it's becuase I want to understand my own rationale and whether or not I feel that my own thinking is valid in relation to what other peoples thoughts are. In short, I am open to learning and to changing my mind based on information and discussion. So keep that in mind and bear with me here I appreciate you engaging with me.

[Lanfear]

Just pretend vaccines are Pokemon - Collect them all!
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[FingerLakes]

I voted no but of course that was before listening to the ep. I would totally eat dog in Korea. I originally thought this was like, if I some hipster place in Williamsburg made artisan dog meat pop ups.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by FingerLakes

I voted no but of course that was before listening to the ep. I would totally eat dog in Korea. I originally thought this was like, if I some hipster place in Williamsburg made artisan dog meat pop ups.

Lord Christ in Heaven...

[astrokahn]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Some concern is legitimate, but the majority of it is stoked by scam artists and charlatans and quacks who are willing to lie...

Remember that you could view a lobbyist or CEO for a pharmaceutical company as someone who built a career out of defending or running a company that saves the lives of thousands of people. Is it convincing to just imply that these people are malevolent or without conscience?

So 3 out of the first 5 points are about or are common talking points of conspiracy theories. And then what follows is the majority of the post, and it is largely jusitifying conspiracy theories
.

D

Goddamnit I don't know how you managed to get my quotes in separated italics! Good job on that.

"Some concern is legitimate." What would you say is a legitimate concern?

Lobbyists- I had to laugh when I read that because it honest to god never occurred to me that lobbyists could be working for good causes bc all I ever hear is how they are terrible. well T.I.L.

Conspiracy-I have been thinking about what you said A LOT over that past day and initially I thought I AM NOT A CONSPIRACY THEO-wait a second... and I went through the various things I listed and realized that yes they would fall under the definition of conspiracy theories but that my personal definition of conspiracy always was rooted in the idea of some silly master plan (to destroy the human race or aliens or whatever) and that was not where my head was ever in the vaccine deal. So it made me rethink the root of what I consider to be conspiracy and whether the particular things that I tend to believe that in turn make me make particular choices are things I still find to be valid or not.

It is a fear based choice, the choice to not vaccinate. its looking at your kid and looking at a shit ton of people posting videos online saying "hey my kid was normal and got vaccinated and not they're not normal and nobody believes me." It's watching documentaries and being scared. It's hearing a friend talk about how her baby was paralyzed for 4 hours.

But then it's a shit ton of other people saying bullshit bullshit it's safe it's fine. Scientific studies, tests, studies tests. And yet here they still are and their kid is still fucked up and I have never found a way to square that. The thing is that everyone who says studies tests science also dismisses those people "because anecdotes."

It's so hard to know what to trust online. I can find almost any endless amount of information on any subject to validate almost anything. I'm not a scientist, I don't know what's real or what's a bullshit study. sometimes when you're aced with a terrifying choice you take non-action because it feels safer.

However, I really am trying to broaden my thinking on this so:
I can think of it terms of this: I love true crime. I'm fascinated by it and so I listen to like four different true crime podcasts. I read true crime books. What happens is that although the chance of a stranger breaking into my house and raping and murdering me is infinitesimally small, I have submerged myself so deeply into these endless stories that it actually feels like a common occurance and so I constantly think I'm gonna die any second at the hands of a serial killer.

I don't want to make decisions out of fear, this is something I haven't looked at in many years. I don't want to put others at risk because I am making a choice for myself that I can live with but fuck all you. i think the fear of the stories I have heard (and seen) has always made it easier to just avoid this entire thing altogether and cross my fingers that my kickass immune system will pull me through. But I really hadn't considered the effect on others or really understood the basis of herd immunity until recently and it makes sense.

In the end, it's a risk. However small, even if the risk is one in a billion it can feel very scary and people have to decide how to face that.

Also I get now why all you people are so fucken mad, but I can't honestly say that I have full confidence that vaccines are safe and I really don't know what anyone could say to me to make me feel that they are.

But,

This isn't to say I wouldn't consider vaccinations now but I think I would still be very scared.

Good job guys 👏

[Lanfear]

Oh my ...

I was always raised to think that the fear based choice is to not vaccinate - like have you seen iron lung polio documentaries? Lock-jaw is no party either.

I understand anxiety, I have that for other topics.

Also I have tons of true crime podcast on my phone (when the fuck did that get so popular? Did LPotL wish it into existence?) but I don't think it'll happen to me.
I don't want to even start thinking about it - I need to be able to go outside at night and not go crazy. But I know anxiety is irrational - Hugs!

[FingerLakes]

Originally Posted by Keith

Lord Christ in Heaven...

I'm sorry
I got my flu shot
so I'm like cool now

[TrixieTracey]

SAME!!