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Old 01-21-2022, 09:12 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I live in a Country with universal healthcare and it’s honestly pretty great.
But I’m sure I just “don’t get it” or am healthy in a wrong way or I’m not real.
( I’m real as I can say and Chemda, Keith and Jerome met me in real life)
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Old 01-21-2022, 09:41 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Universal healthcare should be a right in every country.
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Old 01-21-2022, 04:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Oh you. I think I need to insist you stick to the 2 threads we let you have
Fascist! Help, I'm being repressed!

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Originally Posted by Apia resurrected View Post
I live in a Country with universal healthcare and itís honestly pretty great.
But Iím sure I just ďdonít get itĒ or am healthy in a wrong way or Iím not real.
( Iím real as I can say and Chemda, Keith and Jerome met me in real life)
What does your health care cost per family currently? What would it cost if you went direct to competitive health care individual market? Not saying US plan, since that is seriously broken by putting employer in the middle of it and corrupt non-compete geographic monopolies are appointed by gov.

Why do you think so many people leave your and other gov provided health care systems to get procedures for less and faster, so much so there is a whole industry built around it?

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Universal healthcare should be a right in every country.
It is in western civilization but insurance for care is a different proposition.
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Old 01-22-2022, 01:31 AM   #14 (permalink)
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In our country it’s like that:

You are in universal health care but when you are above a certain income you can decide if you stay in or go private.
We are both above the line and could leave it and go private.

It would be 100% cheaper now but only for us. In the universal plan our kids are insured for free. FREE. Not so in private. We have two kids, this is real money.
And when you get older private becomes more expensive. And you have to pay out of pocket first and get the money back.
Also universal is not non competitive here.
When you go universal you can still choose a provider out of 97 (!!!)

And no, the market you are talking about doesn’t exist here like that only for elective stuff like getting hair implants or having fat removed in some other country. ( often Eastern Europe)
My father had an eye operation last year, got the appointment really fast, things went great and he paid nothing. He stayed in hospital for 2 days.

When I had my kids in a hospital there was no bill for me after.
I’m not sure how my father or me could get this procedures for less than 0 Euro. Maybe if I had a reality show and they would pay me? Don’t think this is a solution for many.

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Old 01-22-2022, 01:57 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The German system is in many ways a mix of private and public. We have choices here, you choose your doctor as you please, 97% of them are in the universal care system and all you have to do is give them your insurance card before the appointment. They also treat patients who are in the private system.
About 3% of doctors only work on private basis. Many of them are doctors who are older, retired and their contract with universal ended but they still want to work a little bit.

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Old 01-22-2022, 01:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Apia resurrected View Post
In our country itís like that:

You are in universal health care but when you are above a certain income you can decide if you stay in or go private.
We are both above the line and could leave it and go private.

It would be 100% cheaper now but only for us. In the universal plan our kids are insured for free. FREE. Not so in private. We have two kids, this is real money.
And when you get older private becomes more expensive. And you have to pay out of pocket first and get the money back.
Also universal is not non competitive here.
When you go universal you can still choose a provider out of 97 (!!!)

And no, the market you are talking about doesnít exist here like that only for elective stuff like getting hair implants or having fat removed in some other country. ( often Eastern Europe)
My father had an eye operation last year, got the appointment really fast, things went great and he paid nothing. He stayed in hospital for 2 days.

When I had my kids in a hospital there was no bill for me after.
Iím not sure how my father or me could get this procedures for less than 0 Euro. Maybe if I had a reality show and they would pay me? Donít think this is a solution for many.
Private insurance is only for the wealthy? They no longer pay tax for public insurance? There is no additional premium?

100% cheaper is almost the right answer...closer to 135% in normal years to have a private insurance plan if we are just looking at premium, the universal also has subsidized other pieces and bad years that come from non-direct taxation, so some years like COVID years for example private would have been ~7,000% cheaper private.


Children are FREE?!?!?! This is a huge psychological difference between you and reality...they are not free they just don't come with additional premium via tax/fees etc. that you are aware of. They are already paid for whether you have children or not. For them to be free would require all the products and services that come with treat, potential treatment, administration etc to be done at no cost (thus not being paid for labor or material costs).

THE GOVERNMENT DOESN"T GIVE YOU ANYTHING FREE (important for Americans right now to understand this too with all the "give me free shit" going on). They just give back some of the citizens' money, or print more which is a theft of value from every currency holder...if you are a citizen then they are giving back some of the money they already took from you after loosing some, administration fees, theft, etc. This is why it mathematically can never be a greater economic move to have the government buy you something than you just buy it for yourself (cuts out all the overheads of government which are estimated currently in western countries around 60% of every unit of currency they touch annually).

Yes, there are a few exceptions where pooled resources by the community to protect those who can't provide for themselves are appropriate but that is a social choice not an economic advantage. That amount in America by all statistics should only be about 10% of the populace which looks like single digits in taxation rates (total taxation not just healthcare or income or property or sales or...). In Germany (post immigration crisis) should be around 16%.

I know the market I'm talking about doesn't exist there...that's why people fly to America, Thailand etc. to get faster cheaper (even with airfare) treatment...It's an entire industry which has been a bit disrupted by COVID but was BOOOOOOMING!

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Originally Posted by Apia resurrected View Post
The German system is in many ways a mix of private and public. We have choices here, you choose your doctor as you please, 97% of them are in the universal care system and all you have to do is give them your insurance card before the appointment. They also treat patients who are in the private system.
About 3% of doctors only work on private basis. Many of them are doctors who are older, retired and their contract with universal ended but they still want to work a little bit.
Not sure your point here. Makes sense for doctors to have the most lucrative payment options available to them (gov insurance) and only older, retired doctors who are already financially secure not want to deal with the gov. Seems to make the counterpoint of what I think you meant.
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Old 01-22-2022, 01:33 PM   #17 (permalink)
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This was Apiaís fault
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Old 01-23-2022, 02:43 AM   #18 (permalink)
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This was Apiaís fault
You are 100% right Keith and I will learn from it.
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Old 01-23-2022, 02:44 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Private insurance is only for the wealthy? They no longer pay tax for public insurance? There is no additional premium?

100% cheaper is almost the right answer...closer to 135% in normal years to have a private insurance plan if we are just looking at premium, the universal also has subsidized other pieces and bad years that come from non-direct taxation, so some years like COVID years for example private would have been ~7,000% cheaper private.


Children are FREE?!?!?! This is a huge psychological difference between you and reality...they are not free they just don't come with additional premium via tax/fees etc. that you are aware of. They are already paid for whether you have children or not. For them to be free would require all the products and services that come with treat, potential treatment, administration etc to be done at no cost (thus not being paid for labor or material costs).

THE GOVERNMENT DOESN"T GIVE YOU ANYTHING FREE (important for Americans right now to understand this too with all the "give me free shit" going on). They just give back some of the citizens' money, or print more which is a theft of value from every currency holder...if you are a citizen then they are giving back some of the money they already took from you after loosing some, administration fees, theft, etc. This is why it mathematically can never be a greater economic move to have the government buy you something than you just buy it for yourself (cuts out all the overheads of government which are estimated currently in western countries around 60% of every unit of currency they touch annually).

Yes, there are a few exceptions where pooled resources by the community to protect those who can't provide for themselves are appropriate but that is a social choice not an economic advantage. That amount in America by all statistics should only be about 10% of the populace which looks like single digits in taxation rates (total taxation not just healthcare or income or property or sales or...). In Germany (post immigration crisis) should be around 16%.

I know the market I'm talking about doesn't exist there...that's why people fly to America, Thailand etc. to get faster cheaper (even with airfare) treatment...It's an entire industry which has been a bit disrupted by COVID but was BOOOOOOMING!



Not sure your point here. Makes sense for doctors to have the most lucrative payment options available to them (gov insurance) and only older, retired doctors who are already financially secure not want to deal with the gov. Seems to make the counterpoint of what I think you meant.
Very good, thank you for improving everything.
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Old 01-23-2022, 08:23 AM   #20 (permalink)
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This was Apiaís fault

Damn. He typed ALL of that and I'm not reading any of it..


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