3518: Deep Water w/ Myq Kaplan

[nordcharonmir]

Originally Posted by marykae

As a personal rule I don't discuss trans rights with people who misgender trans people, especially in a text post because it's not an off the cuff accident.

I have this rule because these folks are too far behind for any discussion to have an impact.

Sometimes people don’t want to hear the truth because they don’t want their illusions destroyed.

[Bucho]

I know it was something of a throwaway line, but the idea there's been a transgender athlete who "dominated in the UFC" is goofy AF.

The most high-profile (thanks to Doctor Joe Rogan) trans MMA fighter is Fallon Fox. Fox never fought at UFC level. The only time she came up against an opponent who wasn't a can, Fox lost via TKO - and even that non-can opponent, when she did later reach the UFC, never got anywhere near the top of her division.

[nordcharonmir]

Originally Posted by Bucho

I know it was something of a throwaway line, but the idea there's been a transgender athlete who "dominated in the UFC" is goofy AF.

The most high-profile (thanks to Doctor Joe Rogan) trans MMA fighter is Fallon Fox. Fox never fought at UFC level. The only time she came up against an opponent who wasn't a can, Fox lost via TKO - and even that non-can opponent, when she did later reach the UFC, never got anywhere near the top of her division.

Holey wow wow wow, you chose Fallon Fox as a counter example??? Just, wow! She was 5-1 in a career where as a piss poor fighter she manhandled and destroyed women, a few didn't even know they were fighting an trans woman. Which is really wrong. Combat sports is the prime place to see how this ideology is dangerous to women who want to compete with women. She literally broke women's faces. As for the she never fought in the UFC...she doesn't meet the qualifications to fight in the women's division and many states couldn't/wouldn't sanction her fights. Seems people don't like to watch men beat women, weird right?!?!?

As for her loss...you didn't watch the fight, did you? Fallon got gassed out grappling (very poorly) after 3 rounds then just laid there and let the other lady take full mount and slap at her for as long as she wanted waiting for the ref to stop the fight...she couldn't be knocked out by this woman even in full mount undefended...think about that.

[Bucho]

Fox didn't have what it took to get by Ashlee "Not Even Qualified To Be A Gatekeeper" Evans-Smith - an opponent in only her second pro fight and who went on to lose 5 of her 8 UFC fights.

But sure, if it helps you sleep at night to tell yourself Fox would've wrecked shop in The Big Show, knock yourself out kid.

[nordcharonmir]

Originally Posted by Bucho

Fox didn't have what it took to get by Ashlee "Not Even Qualified To Be A Gatekeeper" Evans-Smith - an opponent in only her second pro fight and who went on to lose 5 of her 8 UFC fights.

Bucho...I think you missed the entire point. There is no argument that Fallon isn't in anyway at an even average level of technical competency. The point is that her competing in women's sport with the physical advantages of a male body is unsafe for the women with female bodies she is competing against. This is exactly why places wouldn't sanction her. Whether she wins or looses is not the core point to the safety concerns (see broken skull/faces). It does demonstrate her advantage that she wins even while being one of the worst technical fighters ever televised.





The fact that I pointed out that a "piss poor fighter" (see how I never claimed any competency for her) is breaking women's faces against FAR superior technical abilities is demonstration of how this is unsafe and an unfair advantage where there should be safe fair competition. Yes these terms are based on degrees but the degree that MMA should be safe for these women is far higher when fighting female bodied opponents.

[Bucho]

Originally Posted by nordcharonmir

Bucho...I think you missed the entire point.

I dunno bro, I don't reckon I missed Keith's take that he finds it "interesting" that this swimmer achieved average results when competing in the men's division and won a championship in the women's division. And I'm mostly sure I also didn't miss Chemda mistakenly (albeit innocently) saying, related to Keith's take, that a trans woman has ever demonstrated abilities anywhere near the upper levels of WMMA, let alone "dominated" in the UFC.

I might start to think about considering the prospect of perhaps mulling over debating whether I should weigh up the possibility of getting het up about this sort of malarkey if there's ever another Caster Semenya ruling their particular roost, but when it comes to low and mid-level cases like Fallon Fox or Lia Thomas, the Doctor Joe Rogans and Ron DeSantises of the world just come off as hysterical drama queens to me.

[nordcharonmir]

Originally Posted by Bucho

I dunno bro, I don't reckon I missed Keith's take

I thought you were reacting to the point I was making when you reacted to the point I was making not Keith's take on the show. I agree that his take is limited and the full discussion is far larger than win and loose but is actually about safe fair competition.

Originally Posted by Bucho

... but when it comes to low and mid-level cases like Fallon Fox or Lia Thomas, the Doctor Joe Rogans and Ron DeSantises of the world just come off as hysterical drama queens to me.

Because they are concerned with safe and fair not winners and loosers. Safe primarily is what I've heard from those two in particular. Does safety of women not concern you around this issue?

[Bucho]

Originally Posted by nordcharonmir

I thought you were reacting to the point I was making ...

I was correcting your reaction to my response to something said on the show because you were somehow missing the point even though I'm the P4P King and GOAT and Superman at making points.

Originally Posted by nordcharonmir

Does safety of women not concern you around this issue?

One of Fallon Fox's six opponents got her orbital broken. A common enough injury in the sport of face punching for both women and men. Any other reaction is more drama queen virtue-signalling.

[nordcharonmir]

Originally Posted by Bucho

I was correcting your reaction to my response to something said on the show because you were somehow missing the point even though I'm the P4P King and GOAT and Superman at making points.





One of Fallon Fox's six opponents got her orbital broken. A common enough injury in the sport of face punching for both women and men. Any other reaction is more drama queen virtue-signalling.

That sounds right, I couldn't understand your deep nuanced point, u is a goat or sheep or whatever.

Because other women have been hurt before male bodied people beating female bodied people is fine...got it. I'll mark you down in the wife beater but she had it coming category.

P.s. you haven't seen the x-ray, right?

[Bucho]

Originally Posted by nordcharonmir

That sounds right, I couldn't understand your deep nuanced point, u is a goat or sheep or whatever.

Because other women have been hurt before male bodied people beating female bodied people is fine...got it. I'll mark you down in the wife beater but she had it coming category.

P.s. you haven't seen the x-ray, right?

No disrespect, but you sound like kind of a soyboy. Maybe even with a dusting of simp.