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Old 04-08-2008, 03:17 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Hey, all you assholes, come and listen to us, it's the Keith and Bobby show...
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Old 04-08-2008, 05:24 PM   #22 (permalink)
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The ex-wife of the father in the father/daughter story says that they weren't separated for 30 years. The daughter stayed with the father a few times while she was still a teenager.
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Old 04-08-2008, 05:25 PM   #23 (permalink)
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The ex-wife of the father in the father/daughter story says that they weren't separated for 30 years. The daughter stayed with the father a few times while she was still a teenager.
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Fuuuuuuuuuuuck yooooooouuuuuuuu! And welcome to the forums.
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Old 04-08-2008, 08:10 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I take it we're somehow not supposed to point out that the tenth picture from the show is clearly marked "Dina" now?

Who was that other person in the pictures from 689?
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Old 04-08-2008, 08:40 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Funniest show in quite some time.

Chemda yelling was cracking me up... and I agreed with her 100%.
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Old 04-08-2008, 09:28 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I'm probably going to get blasted but what's the difference? If this guy's considers himself a man, how much does it matter?
I have no problem with people having sex changes, I believe there are people who are truely born into the wrong body and if we have the technology to change that then go ahead. My problem with this is that when you get right down to it the fundamental difference between men and women is that women have the ability to carry children and men don't.

So if you honestly believe yourself to be a man trapped in a woman's body you have to BY DEFINITION be willing to give the ability to carry a child up. You cannot consider yourself a man in every way and carry a child. Men, whatever else they can do in the future we live in, cannot carry children.

I don't doubt that they can raise a child well enough, and that they truely love each other and will love the child but if you REALLY believe that you are a man and are commited to being a man in every way carrying a child is just one of the things you have to forfeit or you aren't commited to a sex change.
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Old 04-08-2008, 11:16 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I have no problem with people having sex changes, I believe there are people who are truely born into the wrong body and if we have the technology to change that then go ahead. My problem with this is that when you get right down to it the fundamental difference between men and women is that women have the ability to carry children and men don't.

So if you honestly believe yourself to be a man trapped in a woman's body you have to BY DEFINITION be willing to give the ability to carry a child up. You cannot consider yourself a man in every way and carry a child. Men, whatever else they can do in the future we live in, cannot carry children.

I don't doubt that they can raise a child well enough, and that they truely love each other and will love the child but if you REALLY believe that you are a man and are commited to being a man in every way carrying a child is just one of the things you have to forfeit or you aren't commited to a sex change.
I understand what you're saying, but that has holes in it. If the characteristic that defines a man from a woman is pregnancy, what happens to women who are physically unable to have children like this man' wife, who had to have a hysterectomy for her health? What does that say about women who choose not to have children like myself or Chemda? If you're suggesting that a man who could have children must give up this ability in order to fully be a man, what is the difference in the argument that women who don't/can't have children aren't fully women?

I had a friend who was working to transition from male to female, and the genital reconstruction available for women wanting to become male is really really bad. If you had to chose between an enlarged clit and a fully functional vagina or a dick the size of your clit that had no feeling and couldn't get hard, or a slightly larger dick that had no feeling, couldn't get hard and was in constant danger of rotting off, which would you pick? Maybe it's because I already have a vag, and I like mine very much, but small, flaccid, numb and rotting dick sounds like a bad choice every time.
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:20 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I understand what you're saying, but that has holes in it. If the characteristic that defines a man from a woman is pregnancy, what happens to women who are physically unable to have children like this man' wife, who had to have a hysterectomy for her health? What does that say about women who choose not to have children like myself or Chemda? If you're suggesting that a man who could have children must give up this ability in order to fully be a man, what is the difference in the argument that women who don't/can't have children aren't fully women?

I had a friend who was working to transition from male to female, and the genital reconstruction available for women wanting to become male is really really bad. If you had to chose between an enlarged clit and a fully functional vagina or a dick the size of your clit that had no feeling and couldn't get hard, or a slightly larger dick that had no feeling, couldn't get hard and was in constant danger of rotting off, which would you pick? Maybe it's because I already have a vag, and I like mine very much, but small, flaccid, numb and rotting dick sounds like a bad choice every time.
I think one thing that everyone's aware of but just hasn't flushed out is identifying with being a man vs (biologically) being a man is often but in this case not the same thing.

For a man to have his penis inverted to go from a male to a female still makes him biologically a man. Even if he cut your balls off and got implants and supplements to alter testosterone and estrogen levels, he still carries that Y chromosome and he does not have a uterus or ovaries or hips meant for childbirth. No cavity exists that can sustain a fetus. No eggs are produced. In no biological sense has sex changed in the same way a deformity or ampuation makes something other than a Homo Sapien.

A woman's uterus and ovaries remain intact in this case. On the inside, she's still a woman. Everything done has been "cosmetic" in a loose but accurate sense of the word. She can call herself a man, identify with being a man, and ask that people treat her as a man. Some of us agree to that, but biology does not.

Hear that Oprah? *STAR WIPE*
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Old 04-09-2008, 02:02 AM   #29 (permalink)
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If the characteristic that defines a man from a woman is pregnancy, what happens to women who are physically unable to have children like this man' wife, who had to have a hysterectomy for her health? What does that say about women who choose not to have children like myself or Chemda? If you're suggesting that a man who could have children must give up this ability in order to fully be a man, what is the difference in the argument that women who don't/can't have children aren't fully women?
I totally understand but what I'm trying to say, and its a very fine point (fine as in subtle not good i'm not sure if its good), its not that pregnancy essential to make you a woman, as you said a lot of women can't have children and a lot choose not to. But women who can't have children often have identity problems and feel like what defines them as a woman has been lost, I don't think it has I think there are a lot of other things that make you a woman. Maybe it makes more sense to look at it from the other way. All men are unable to carry children, isn't one of the requirements for a sex change that you have been living as a man in every way for two years before the operation? If you get pregnant can you still be a man? Maybe thats a better question.
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Old 04-09-2008, 03:16 AM   #30 (permalink)
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"And here I thought we'd get cake"

Keith, the cake is a lie. You know this.
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