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Old 01-05-2009, 09:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Michaelicious View Post
Isnít that an old story about the guy that went to the whore house and saw his wife? Iím pretty sure you guys covered that story, and Keith made the same piŮa colada reference then that he did now. Or am I just going insane.
Patrice did. I think it was around this time last year. The news article showed up on Digg again. I saw it, but remembered it wasn't recent.
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Gaza

Nevermind that an election is due soon in Israel and the war mongering parties have got a major boost in the polls from invading Gaza.

I understand that Israel got sick of rockets coming over the barbed wire (a total of 4 dead in the last few years) but Israel didn't help the situatiuon by placing a blockade on Gaza (which is in violation of the Geneva Convention).

What are a people going to do when they are trapped inside barbed wire for the entirety of their lives struggling to survive? Nevermind that Israel is treating the residents of Gaza exactly the same way the Nazis treating the Jews in overrun countries in WWII. The ghettoisation of the Jews was an entirely intentional attempt to disenfranchise the population and it worked. The Jews were locked up surrounded by barbed wire with absolute minimal supplies coming in.

In the end, this is both the fault of Hamas and Israel. I think the only way to solve this is for Israel to return to pre-1967 borders, close all settlements in the West Bank and allow Arabs to own land in Israel. But, we all know it won't happen.
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Old 01-05-2009, 10:38 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SuperCujo View Post
Nevermind that an election is due soon in Israel and the war mongering parties have got a major boost in the polls from invading Gaza.

I understand that Israel got sick of rockets coming over the barbed wire (a total of 4 dead in the last few years) but Israel didn't help the situatiuon by placing a blockade on Gaza (which is in violation of the Geneva Convention).

What are a people going to do when they are trapped inside barbed wire for the entirety of their lives struggling to survive? Nevermind that Israel is treating the residents of Gaza exactly the same way the Nazis treating the Jews in overrun countries in WWII. The ghettoisation of the Jews was an entirely intentional attempt to disenfranchise the population and it worked. The Jews were locked up surrounded by barbed wire with absolute minimal supplies coming in.

In the end, this is both the fault of Hamas and Israel. I think the only way to solve this is for Israel to return to pre-1967 borders, close all settlements in the West Bank and allow Arabs to own land in Israel. But, we all know it won't happen.
While I'm not the person to bring up the Nazis during a discussion--Goodwin's Law and all--but yeah, both sides are just about equally guilty of some sort of wrongdoing.
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:32 PM   #14 (permalink)
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While I'm not the person to bring up the Nazis during a discussion--Goodwin's Law and all--but yeah, both sides are just about equally guilty of some sort of wrongdoing.
Godwin's Law is only enacted when someone is being compared to the nazis or hitler; in the case you are actually discussing nazis in a realistic or historic context, Godwin's Law shall not be enacted.
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:32 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The caller talking about Israel used the misquote of the Iranian PM about Iran wanting Israel wiped off the map as if they want to kill all the Israelis. That has been debunked as a serious misquote.

The real intent of that speech was to say that the creation of the state of Israel was wrong and that the country of Palestine should replace it. Not once did he say that all Israelis should be killed.

The whole region is a shit fight and the fact that the US blindly funds and supports Israel just stirs up more hate.
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Old 01-06-2009, 12:20 AM   #16 (permalink)
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The caller talking about Israel used the misquote of the Iranian PM about Iran wanting Israel wiped off the map as if they want to kill all the Israelis. That has been debunked as a serious misquote.

The real intent of that speech was to say that the creation of the state of Israel was wrong and that the country of Palestine should replace it. Not once did he say that all Israelis should be killed.
During the current situation I'm siding with Israel, I believe they have the right to defend themselves from their daily rocket strikes and broken 'cease fire' agreements.
but why did Israel a few months want to bomb IRAN? Granted, Iran doesn't recognize Israel, they think the holy land should belong to Palestine, etc, but how do you get from 'we don't like you because you talk shit about us and don't recognize us as a country' to 'we're gonna bomb the shit out you!' ? did I miss something?*
*This subject particularly worries me because my parents live in Iran.
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Old 01-06-2009, 12:51 AM   #17 (permalink)
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During the current situation I'm siding with Israel, I believe they have the right to defend themselves from their daily rocket strikes and broken 'cease fire' agreements.
but why did Israel a few months want to bomb IRAN? Granted, Iran doesn't recognize Israel, they think the holy land should belong to Palestine, etc, but how do you get from 'we don't like you because you talk shit about us and don't recognize us as a country' to 'we're gonna bomb the shit out you!' ? did I miss something?*
*This subject particularly worries me because my parents live in Iran.
Iran's building a nuclear program suspected by many to be directly aimed at obtaining nuclear weapons. Israel has had in the works plans to bomb their reactor facilities like they did to Iraq in '81 so that Iran can't obtain the fissile material necessary to create a nuclear weapon. Given Iran's stated aim of eliminating Israel I'd say they have a right to be scared.

As for the Nazi comparison, it's incredibly weak. The border closures of Gaza were enacted after Hamas (a terror group) came to power in Gaza. Gaza was very poor for a long time, but the blockade has been aimed at weakening Hamas in the strip to limit their ability to fight Israel. Israel didn't round up its Arab population and put it in Gaza then put up a wall. In fact, they removed all their settlements from Gaza in 2005. However, Palestinians voted Hamas into power in 2006 and then Hamas orchestrated a violent coup in the Strip in 2007 to obtain complete and utter control.

Israel has to allow in humanitarian aid, but they have every right to restrict imports to a hostile power that's at war with them. Otherwise no military blockades of any sort would be considered legal.

The problem is this: right now Israel sees zero prospect for peace when the Palestinians are essentially in a state of civil war. The 2005 Gaza pullout was unprecedented, and could have been the blueprint to further settlement evacuation, but the day after the pullout Hamas had to flex its muscle by firing rockets into Israel. Since then most of the ex-settlements have become a key launching ground for Hamas rockets.

Why would Israel potentially put its entire nation within range of rockets when the Palestinians are in no position to guarantee peace? That's just stupid.

Any solution will depend on military restraint by Israel, but it's not a one way street. The Palestinians need to get their shit together and decide they want peace before it can happen. Right now that's not the case, so they get war instead.
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Old 01-06-2009, 02:16 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Iran's building a nuclear program suspected by many to be directly aimed at obtaining nuclear weapons. Israel has had in the works plans to bomb their reactor facilities like they did to Iraq in '81 so that Iran can't obtain the fissile material necessary to create a nuclear weapon. Given Iran's stated aim of eliminating Israel I'd say they have a right to be scared.
I understand that, but it is only speculation that they are working on a nuclear program to obtain nuclear weapons. I honestly believe that they are working on that project to get cheaper energy. They rely pretty much 100% on oil, and since they have a lot of it, their energy bills are insanely low (my parents had to pay ~3 bucks for electricity during the summer... taking into account that they had 2 AC's turned on through the entire month, I'd say that's pretty cheap) so, in my opinion, their nuclear program is aimed toward getting another source of energy, taking into account that oil doesn't last forever, etc.
Also, Iran itself is a very peaceful place, peaceful people, etc. My parents see no violence at all, no thefts, etc. the closest thing they saw to violence was people marching down the street holding shoes up after that iraqi reporter threw his shoes at Bush, but it was a peaceful demonstration.
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Old 01-06-2009, 02:24 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SuperCujo View Post
The caller talking about Israel used the misquote of the Iranian PM about Iran wanting Israel wiped off the map as if they want to kill all the Israelis. That has been debunked as a serious misquote.
mahmud ahmedinijad stated over and over that israel and its people should be bombed.
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Originally Posted by SuperCujo View Post
What are a people going to do when they are trapped inside barbed wire for the entirety of their lives struggling to survive? Nevermind that Israel is treating the residents of Gaza exactly the same way the Nazis treating the Jews in overrun countries in WWII. The ghettoisation of the Jews was an entirely intentional attempt to disenfranchise the population and it worked. The Jews were locked up surrounded by barbed wire with absolute minimal supplies coming in.

In the end, this is both the fault of Hamas and Israel. I think the only way to solve this is for Israel to return to pre-1967 borders, close all settlements in the West Bank and allow Arabs to own land in Israel. But, we all know it won't happen.
israel has every right to put a fucking fence in our fucking side of the border and dont you fucking dare to compare this to the holocaust.
and no, we shouldnt return to our 67 borders because according to the geneva convention, if a country attacks you, and in your retaliation you conquer their territories, you have every right to keep them, which is exactly what happened to us.

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Originally Posted by dark_lobo View Post
During the current situation I'm siding with Israel, I believe they have the right to defend themselves from their daily rocket strikes and broken 'cease fire' agreements.
but why did Israel a few months want to bomb IRAN? Granted, Iran doesn't recognize Israel, they think the holy land should belong to Palestine, etc, but how do you get from 'we don't like you because you talk shit about us and don't recognize us as a country' to 'we're gonna bomb the shit out you!' ? did I miss something?*
*This subject particularly worries me because my parents live in Iran.
iran has in the past years been gaining nuclear powers and israel is still debating what actions will we take when our intelligence informs the gov't that iran can nuke israel.
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:01 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I sincerely liked reading all these, but to say Iran wishes death on no one is ridiculous. The state of Israel should go and Palestine should take over? What do you think that means?
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