930: Silver Dragon

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by dzagama

Do explain.

Personally, I think that we should shoot everyone at their appropriate astrological sign with a "Big Bertha" style projectile weapon and see if they can make it back. If they can, we believe EVERYTHING they have to say. Present company excepted, of course.

[BrownEyedBtch]

Originally Posted by dzagama

Do explain.

Astrological signs determining your fate and personality don't apply to everyone. Not all libras, or all air signs, are alike. Not all fire signs and water signs are incompatible. My thoughts ran together there.

Burning a woman, like the witch trials, was based on spectral evidence, like having a yellow bird flying over your head meant you were possessed by Satan. Of course it's preposterous today, but it wasn't back then. Slight digression...

[dzagama]

Originally Posted by BrownEyedBtch

Astrological signs determining your fate and personality don't apply to everyone. Not all libras, or all air signs, are alike. Not all fire signs and water signs are incompatible. My thoughts ran together there.

Burning a woman, like the witch trials, was based on spectral evidence, like having a yellow bird flying over your head meant you were possessed by Satan. Of course it's preposterous today, but it wasn't back then. Slight digression...

Would you be terribly offended if I made fun of you?

To clarify, how are you delineating one form of mysticism from the other? Why is one form patently ridiculous, but the other, immensely plausible?

[Blitzgal]

Originally Posted by dzagama

Would you be terribly offended if I made fun of you?

LOL!

Also, Neo-Pagans and Wiccans may THINK they are following some ancient tradition that's been around for thousands of years, but for the most part they're simply following a modernized and heavily adapted version of these beliefs and rituals. Exact records of these old traditions don't really exist for the most part. Anthropologists can look at evidence left behind and extrapolate, but primary sources are usually biased. You can't take what the Romans say about the ancient Celts as gospel truth, for example.

[BrownEyedBtch]

Originally Posted by dzagama

Would you be terribly offended if I made fun of you?

You will anyway, so why the heck not?

Originally Posted by dzagama

To clarify, how are you delineating one form of mysticism from the other? Why is one form patently ridiculous, but the other, immensely plausible?

Both are both patently ridiculous and immensely plausible. It's only ridiculous by today's standards. If I were living in those times, when that was what I had, then I wouldn't think it was so ridiculous. I choose to believe there is a form of divine guidance that is not linked to a deity. Most of you don't. I don't mind that. I am not making fun of any of you for not believing it. Everything is only worth what you are willing to believe it is worth. This is why religions still exist, because people believe in them. If Robert, or any other advisor, had told me that I am going to turn into a purple duck by the end of 2009, I could fully believe it because it came from a spiritual realm. Or I could find it to be completely ridiculous. (For the record, he said no such thing.)

Originally Posted by Blitzgal

Exact records of these old traditions don't really exist for the most part. Anthropologists can look at evidence left behind and extrapolate, but primary sources are usually biased. You can't take what the Romans say about the ancient Celts as gospel truth, for example.

No exact records exist for most religions exist. They're retellings of retellings of retellings. Different religions who use the same bible just use different retellings as their gospels. Again, it's only worth what you choose to believe.

[Blitzgal]

Originally Posted by BrownEyedBtch

No exact records exist for most religions exist. They're retellings of retellings of retellings. Different religions who use the same bible just use different retellings as their gospels. Again, it's only worth what you choose to believe.

Also true, and why I am not religious.

Also, in the example of witch burning, a belief that could be "either ridiculous or plausible" resulted in the deaths of many innocent people. Recently the Catholic church excommunicated everyone who had helped obtain an abortion for a nine year old girl who'd been raped by her step-father, but did nothing to punish the step-father. And Keith loves telling the stories of Indian children being married to animals in order to keep the crops growing. When people hand authority to so-called "spiritual" leaders and allow them to dictate what is right and wrong, people are hurt, abused, and killed for it. It happens all across the world.

So I won't apologize for having no respect for this type of mumbo jumbo. It's all part of the same spectrum.

[Maiyn]

I firmly believe that Robert is doing something with his "ability".

He's helping ignorant people part with thier money.

[BrianAlt]

Originally Posted by Maiyn

He's helping ignorant people part with thier money.

I'll drink to that!

[BrownEyedBtch]

Originally Posted by Blitzgal

So I won't apologize for having no respect for this type of mumbo jumbo. It's all part of the same spectrum.

You should never have to apologize for what you choose to believe or, better, what you choose not to believe. And I respect the fact that you don't apologize.

[Junkenstein]

Originally Posted by Blitzgal

Also true, and why I am not religious.

Also, in the example of witch burning, a belief that could be "either ridiculous or plausible" resulted in the deaths of many innocent people. Recently the Catholic church excommunicated everyone who had helped obtain an abortion for a nine year old girl who'd been raped by her step-father, but did nothing to punish the step-father. And Keith loves telling the stories of Indian children being married to animals in order to keep the crops growing. When people hand authority to so-called "spiritual" leaders and allow them to dictate what is right and wrong, people are hurt, abused, and killed for it. It happens all across the world.

So I won't apologize for having no respect for this type of mumbo jumbo. It's all part of the same spectrum.

It's part of the same spectrum but, in the specific case of Robert Alvarez, no one gets really hurt, maimed, burned or psychologically destroyed by what he does. People may loose money but they gain some sort of advice or sense of security. It may be false, but i guess that's something that most people secretly know.

Southern Italy has a whole history of "Santeria" (some sort of practical magic, similar to hodoo practices, but with a strict religious turn). There are lots of people who give money to ladies who pretend to be able to talk with saints, dead relatives, even god in some cases. Some of them actually say that they can cure illness, even the harshest ones, like cancer, thanks to their link to god itself.

A big multicultural country like America, generally enables people to follow many ways to solve problems. Various religions, spiritual beliefs, sciences, cults. You can find a way to solve your problems, even the most difficult ones.

My country has a disastrous healthcare, and a joke goverment. That's why people hide in the most barbaric aspects of our most imposed religion (catholicism). Or go to a psychic eventually, or an astrologist (and the church is fighting those BIG TIME, even if they're celebrities)...

I chose, personally to believe only in concrete reality, even if it's harsh and sometimes unbearable. But i would really be a prick if i started a fight with a psychic that makes money like any business man with consenting citizens as his clients. Who knows maybe his clients live a hapier life than mine and i'm on the wrong side.