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Old 08-11-2006, 10:29 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cubby
This may be one of the least-informed, ass-originated statements I have heard here. Literally all violence performed by Muslims toward the west has been done by fundamentalist Muslims. They make up 7% of all the Muslims in the world. You are simply assuming that all Muslims are violent and this makes you an arrogant, racist asshole.

Yes, I did say racist, because I'm sure you are only referencing Muslims of middle-eastern descent. I doubt you think that Dave Chappelle wants his kids to die for Allah. He is a Muslim. This religion has so many people world-wide that there is no way they can all be from the middle east, yet you are basing all your statements on this assumption.

And are you seriously suggesting we kill all Muslims in the middle east? You fucking asshole.
I agree Cubby, many people only think of Muslims as being followers of the al Quada philosophy, but Islam is at a crossroads, in my opinion between fundamentalism and moderation and it is a battle that will be played out in the mosques and not on the street. we cannot expect that in a few years fundamenalists will see the light and embrace the west and our ideals (look at the Jews in NYC who throw rocks at people on saturday). There will always be different interpretations of Islam, but our goal should be to prove that Islam and the west are not incompatible.
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Old 08-11-2006, 11:36 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubby
This may be one of the least-informed, ass-originated statements I have heard here. Literally all violence performed by Muslims toward the west has been done by fundamentalist Muslims. They make up 7% of all the Muslims in the world. You are simply assuming that all Muslims are violent and this makes you an arrogant, racist asshole.

Yes, I did say racist, because I'm sure you are only referencing Muslims of middle-eastern descent. I doubt you think that Dave Chappelle wants his kids to die for Allah. He is a Muslim. This religion has so many people world-wide that there is no way they can all be from the middle east, yet you are basing all your statements on this assumption.

And are you seriously suggesting we kill all Muslims in the middle east? You fucking asshole.
Are you done twisting my words to your own devices?
The only people I am referring to are the terrorists.

Defending murderers makes you the fucking asshole.

Last edited by Nihility; 08-11-2006 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 08-11-2006, 12:08 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Nihility
The only people I am referring to are the terrorists.
It may be a good idea to specify who you are talking about. I was thrown off by the references to "that culture" which, to me, implied Muslims. And even if this in only about terrorists, killing entire families of terrorists because they have the POTENTIAL to be terrorists is morally reprehensible and non-justifiable in my mind. That is like killing the victims of child molesters because they're statistically more likely to become molesters themselves. You may say I am twisting your words again, but you really implied a lot of things by what you said, this being one of them. One more thing: which wars have been resolved by complete elimination of the other side?
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Old 08-11-2006, 12:11 PM   #34 (permalink)
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"which wars have been resolved by complete elimination of the other side?[/QUOTE]

Just to throw in my two cents, wars are usually not won with the complete destruction of the 'other' side, rather the destruction of the other side's ability to wage war.
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Old 08-11-2006, 12:17 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cubby
It may be a good idea to specify who you are talking about. I was thrown off by the references to "that culture" which, to me, implied Muslims. And even if this in only about terrorists, killing entire families of terrorists because they have the POTENTIAL to be terrorists is morally reprehensible and non-justifiable in my mind. That is like killing the victims of child molesters because they're statistically more likely to become molesters themselves. You may say I am twisting your words again, but you really implied a lot of things by what you said, this being one of them. One more thing: which wars have been resolved by complete elimination of the other side?
Would it shock you to find out I have "Arab" friends (though admittedly, less Muslims than Christians)? That's racism too.

Which wars? The crusades for instance. Was there any way the victims of those wars could have reached an agreement with the other side?
Not just elimination, assimilation also works.

The point is, you can't argue with someones faith. If one side believes god wants one thing and the other believes he wants another and the only argument either side can produce is "Faith". Then there is no way to resolve that conflict.

The motives of suicide bombers do not in fact come from the Koran as much as it comes from an interpretation of it.
It is much easier to use ones faith to control them than it is to get them to do it for any other reason.

Holy wars do not end well.
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Old 08-11-2006, 12:39 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Nihility
Which wars? The crusades for instance.
I forgot how awesome the Crusades were. Nothing is cooler than killing babies and women in the streets and then riding your horses over their dead bodies in the name of Jesus.

In fact the knights who went to Jerusalem were officially expunged of all sins they would commit during their crusade by the Catholic Church, so they could rape, murder, and pillage without any consequences. Sounds a little like the shahids you were talking about earlier; forgiven completely and ushered into heaven for their sacrifice.

And who started that "war"? The pope. It was unmotivated except to distract people from corruption and to obtain money and land for the Church by obtaining it legally from knights who died on this misguided quest.

White people and Christians: we should be a-fucking-shamed of this travesty being a part of our history. Can we please try not to make a new crusade in the present by learning from the past?
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Old 08-11-2006, 12:42 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by deznice
As most of us have heard by now, the British government has foiled an attempted terrorist plot by a group of 21 Pakistani men earlier this morning. What they were planning on doing, allegedly, was to sneak bombs on to aircraft bound for the United States, disguised in liquid bottles. Thankfully, this treacherous plot was found out just in time, but this is gotta stop. Just minutes ago, I read another article about airport delays, and people not being able to bring shampoo bottles on airplanes now. What a bunch of bullshit! Why are we letting nutcases dictate how we live our lives? Fuck that! You want to get rid of suicide terrorists, of the Islamic extremists kind, anyway, this is what you do...





Take these 21 Pakistani losers, and shot them, executioner style, with bullets soaked in PIG blood. You know what, I bet if that were to happen, that would pretty much be the end of this sad trend.



What is the allure of blowing yourself up, and taking out numerous others along the way? For most normal people, nothing. For sick, twisted, Islamic extremists, it means being able to leave this life, which for most of them, isn't filled with money, ho's, sex, and weed, and go to heaven, to meet Allah, and snag 72 virgins. But if there body's are exposed to pig remains, it just won't happen!



Why?



Because the pig is considered the dirties, of dirty, animals, according to their faith. So what that would mean, in a nutshell, is no virgins for them. Just death, and nothing else.



There would go the incentive to being a martyr.



But we would never do that. Nor would the British. No, we have to kowtow to these people, and do our best not to offend. To me, that's some dumb-ass bullshit. We need to be hard! We need to show the rest of the world, we ain't playin'.



Israel does that.



They get a few solders kidnapped in Lebanon, and they go ape-shit, and start a war over it. Why? Well, its because they believe in the theory of if you give someone an inch, they'll take a mile. They don't fuck around, and neither should we!



What do you say? Should we start getting raw, and hard-core? Or should we just pacify these turds, and wait for them to strike next?
didnt we do this already in world war one? they are still around, though i admit it was effective at the time.

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Old 08-12-2006, 12:11 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cubby
I forgot how awesome the Crusades were. Nothing is cooler than killing babies and women in the streets and then riding your horses over their dead bodies in the name of Jesus.

In fact the knights who went to Jerusalem were officially expunged of all sins they would commit during their crusade by the Catholic Church, so they could rape, murder, and pillage without any consequences. Sounds a little like the shahids you were talking about earlier; forgiven completely and ushered into heaven for their sacrifice.

And who started that "war"? The pope. It was unmotivated except to distract people from corruption and to obtain money and land for the Church by obtaining it legally from knights who died on this misguided quest.

White people and Christians: we should be a-fucking-shamed of this travesty being a part of our history. Can we please try not to make a new crusade in the present by learning from the past?
FYI, the Pope authorized the Crusades because the Saracens(Turks) were attacking Christian pilgrams on their way to Jeruselem and Emperor Alexius felt the threat warranted a war. The best chance of peace between Europe and the Middle East was during the Third Crusade, when Richard Liohhart got Saladin to agree to unmolested pilgrimages for Christains to the holy land. Unfortunately Saladin died a year later and his successors started up with the shit again.

Every human on the Earth carries some ancestral guilt. White Christians aren't the only ones with atrocities in their past and the liberal hippy guilt is really getting old.

Where's Spain's apologies for destroying the Mayan and Aztec civilizations, plus reparations for all the gold they stole? ** as an aside, this is what angers me about Mexicans bitching about how California used to be their land and we stole it. Yeah, how dare we win a war and take land that they had already stolen??? **

Where's the Arabic apology for the African slave trade? A condition that still exists today, btw. Where's the Arab Muslim apology for the atrocities of the Barbary pirates?

Where is the Mongol apology for their invasion of Europe?
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Old 08-12-2006, 12:31 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Daemonik
Every human on the Earth carries some ancestral guilt. White Christians aren't the only ones with atrocities in their past and the liberal hippy guilt is really getting old.
I totally agree with your points here, except that I'm definitely not a hippie and not really liberal (I'm sort of libertarian, sort of democrat, with a splash of republican, but I prefer to think that I make up my own mind about each issue instead of following a party that decides for me). I was not saying races/religions should apologize for what their anscestors have done; that makes no sense, because the guilty parties are all dead. I'm saying the crusades were a tragedy, much like all the others you mentioned, and that we should learn from them and NOT DO IT AGAIN. I don't think we should mass kill suspected terrorists and their families for reasons of potentiality. I was comparing that notion to the Crusades because Nihility used it as an example of a war won by complete elimination of the other side.

I did not know about the Saecsens attacking pilgrims, but I still believe there is significant evidence of Church corruption at the time of the Crusades, enough that I believe there were motives other than simple defense of pilgrims. The fact that knights were pre-cleared of Crusade based sins is enough for me to doubt that this conflict was based on noble principles. But thanks for your input; I'll have to waste a bunch of time looking the Crusades up on Wikipedia now.

Time to put on my hemp backpack, tie back my white-man dreadlocks, and go play hacky sack in the rain while listening to Dave Matthews. /ironic shrug
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