Is there a God?

[spooky]

The joke is, we all have the same punchline.

[RoundAbout]

I don't care.

[Malcolm Is Moore]

Originally Posted by spuds

Doubt it, inf fact, I hope not. I enjoy chaos and it would be quite disappointing if all this was planned and not the random mess of my dreams!

Great first post.

Originally Posted by Jeffyeathatone

Ha!

To what? That I don't matter because I'm in hs? Because even if I make an intelligent statement, it doesn't matter at all? Or is it because it's the internet and you can say shit that adds nothing to the conversation? Or maybe it's because you're trying to get a rise out of me? I really am wondering by the way, I'm not trying to be a douche.

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by siric

I'm currently reading the book, The God Delusion, by Richard Dawkins. I'm about to start chapter four, and so far it is exceptionally good. Dawkins already refuted one of C. S. Lewis' main arguments in the ridiculous book, Mere Christianity, both the Old Testament and the New Testament, and exposed the ignorance of many pro-god-exists arguments.

So now I am curious to hear a discussion among KATG listeners. Do you believe in God (or gods)? If so why (personal religious experience, know someone who had one, parents, fuzzy feeling in your heart when thinking about it, cause there "has to" be a god for the world to work as well as it does, etc.?

Let me start:

No.

Religion was a social necessity in primitive human days, both as a social glue and as the provider of a common goal: making god(s) happy with your people/family. Due to the human population explosion and the telephone game effect (in the vein of purple monkey dishwasher), it mutated into the ridiculous farce that is modern religion.

Also, I am curious about a point Dawkins made in chapter three. What education level do you have? And if you don't mind my answering, what is your IQ?

I am a sophomore in college and I have an IQ around 128 (I'm not sure exactly).

Good grief. Dawkins's book was riddled with holes, it made assumptions, and was poorly written. If you think Dawkins has a point in The God Delusion, you really haven't put much thought into religion.

And before you start calling bias, I'm an atheist. That book is dumb and it does as much harm to the religious discourse in the world as Christianity.

[Ubertapper]

Originally Posted by Malcolm Is Moore

I don't believe in god per se, but I believe in a higher power. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that the universe just happened.

I'm a soph in hs and I have an IQ of 148. (just got an IQ test not too long ago)

You can't understand that the universe "just happened" (do some research. the science behind these theorems are very cool) but the idea that some deity (pick one or a couple... there are supposedly hundreds) just *poofs* the whole universe in all its splendor into existence is plausible... really. You really should use some of those IQ points and study some of the science before you just throw shit around. Real life is SO much cooler than fairy tales

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by Ubertapper

You can't understand that the universe "just happened" (do some research. the science behind these theorems are very cool) but the idea that some deity (pick one or a couple... there are supposedly hundreds) just *poofs* the whole universe in all its splendor into existence is plausible... really. You really should use some of those IQ points and study some of the science before you just throw shit around. Real life is SO much cooler than fairy tales

See, this is the sort of dumb comments that Dawkins's book fosters. You're either purposefully or unintentionally picking the most absurd case of a creator god in order to attack all of them.

Dawkins tries to make Christian thought synonymous with the word "religion", and Christianity tries to make Christian thought synonymous with the word "religion". The Christian God is one deity, not a representation of them all.

[Ubertapper]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Good grief. Dawkins's book was riddled with holes, it made assumptions, and was poorly written. If you think Dawkins has a point in The God Delusion, you really haven't put much thought into religion.

And before you start calling bias, I'm an atheist. That book is dumb and it does as much harm to the religious discourse in the world as Christianity.

Just throwing this out there but you must be a Bertrand Russell fan. I agree there are some philosophical holes in the book, but harmful?! Very little has cause more harm than the bible or other religious text. Since you seem to be an expert, throw out some titles that we should be reading. Always looking for more perspective.

[Rhian]

Originally Posted by Jeffyeathatone

Ha!

And ignore the above fuck you, I wasn't paying attention

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by Ubertapper

Just throwing this out there but you must be a Bertrand Russell fan. I agree there are some philosophical holes in the book, but harmful?! Very little has cause more harm than the bible or other religious text. Since you seem to be an expert, throw out some titles that we should be reading. Always looking for more perspective.

It does harm in that by pursuing its goal of establishing atheism as the only form of belief, it makes it even harder for reasonable people who believe in both theism and atheism to destroy a harmful foe: the Bible.

If you recognize the harmfulness of something, but refuse to make fighting it a common goal unless your very specific, unproven, and poorly argued case is accepted as the one true belief, you are willfully adding to the problem.

A book that this nation seems to have forgotten (or rather, buried) along with its author is The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine. Contained within is a moral, intelligent, reasoned belief in a creator god coupled with a celebratory extolling of science. I would like it if someone explained to me the harm of believing in Deism, or how it has been proven false. Dawkins does not offer anything on that matter, except for his respectful passing remark about Thomas Paine followed by ridiculously false assumptions about the man before avoiding him and his work entirely. Even Dawkins, a fervent enemy of religion, acknowledged that Deism is vastly superior to Christianity.

Should our priority not be replacing one with the other, I ask? Surely men of science can realize that religious thought cannot be expunged from the mind of man entirely. Imagine how much healthier the religious thought in this country would be if Deism was dominant instead of Christianity.

[Malcolm Is Moore]

Originally Posted by Ubertapper

You can't understand that the universe "just happened" (do some research. the science behind these theorems are very cool) but the idea that some deity (pick one or a couple... there are supposedly hundreds) just *poofs* the whole universe in all its splendor into existence is plausible... really. You really should use some of those IQ points and study some of the science before you just throw shit around. Real life is SO much cooler than fairy tales

I merely think that it's too much of a coincidence to me that the universe exists, and life miraculously appeared. I don't believe in Christianities god, but I do believe that there is a higher power out there, be it a time loop, a deity, or some other thing my mind couldn't even comprehend. Or there's a possibility that I am the only being, and everything else is just my imagination. I DIDN'T say that it just magically "poofed" the world into existence.

Do you understand those theories? I don't really know what ones you're talking about, so I can't really refute that. As for my not using my IQ, I have. That's how I reached my conclusion.
Why can't you accept that I have a different view than you? That's like me saying that killing small animals and children is fun, you saying it's not, and me saying back to you "I'm right, and you're a fucktard for not agreeing with me."

In short, I'm not going to pretend that I know what the origin of the universe is. It very well may be the case that your idea of what it is really is the truth, but we both don't know FOR SURE what is. That's why it's up for debate. Because we DON'T FUCKING KNOW, AND WE NEVER WILL. So please stop spouting bullshit, and use YOUR head.