1265: The Numbers Game

[stulagu]

Originally Posted by fluxquanta

What is it, then?

a last resort, a sign of desperation, complete and utter sadness and dispare

[fluxquanta]

When I think of what a "coward" is I think of people who have options, but instead turn to the quickest and easiest means of getting out of a tough situation. Except in some very extreme cirumstances there ARE other options, so suicde to me is indeed cowardly.

[Grapist]

Originally Posted by fluxquanta

When I think of what a "coward" is I think of people who have options, but instead turn to the quickest and easiest means of getting out of a tough situation. Except in some very extreme cirumstances there ARE other options, so suicde to me is indeed cowardly.

So you have never had someone in your life commit suicide.

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by fluxquanta

When I think of what a "coward" is I think of people who have options, but instead turn to the quickest and easiest means of getting out of a tough situation. Except in some very extreme cirumstances there ARE other options, so suicde to me is indeed cowardly.

Really, all this does is demonstrate that you don't understand suicide. Many times people kill themselves because it is the solution. I think you're just imagining whiners who attempt suicide. Those people kill themselves by accident; its not really in their interests to pull the trigger.

Many suicides are the solution. Genuine depression isn't synonymous with whining about the state of one's life; it's a chemical sickness of the brain that makes living itself painful and unbearable. People kill themselves so that their brain will finally stop whirring.

Also, it's kind of messed up that you describe killing one's self as "quick and easy".

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by slampokes

Woah woah woah... I feel that we need to exercise caution with the whole suicide thing. I think it's more of a continuum and less of a black/white thing. People may commit suicide for a multitude of reasons. While perhaps some people who succumb to suicide (or choose suicide, really it's all a matter of your own perspective), I don't think someone helplessly clinically depressed who has not had or does not resond to treatment is a coward in the purest sense of the word. I just don't want to paint everyone with the same brush here.

Precisely.

EDIT: Oh goodness, look at us being all agreeing and shit.

[Junkenstein]

Originally Posted by fluxquanta

When I think of what a "coward" is I think of people who have options, but instead turn to the quickest and easiest means of getting out of a tough situation. Except in some very extreme cirumstances there ARE other options, so suicde to me is indeed cowardly.

I never get if you're really so emotionless or you're just acting.

Have you ever been seriously depressed or dealt with someone who was really, utterly and completely destroyed by something in their life?

Suicide ISNT a solution. But it ISNT cowardly or easy. And i'm speaking about actual suicide, planned and succesful. Not the light cries for help that some emo teenager sommits popping a few pills or cutting their wrists the wrong way. I'm talking about people who are in such a mental state of suffering, that makes every second of life so miserable and unbearable that clear thinking is impossible. Or that are in such physical pain that death would seem like a logical way to stop it.

I think that anyone that says that depression or suicide are cowardly/spineless/easy/pussy stuff is either an asshole (or pretending to be one) or is so well adjusted and ina pretty cozy life that they think everything can be solved easily.

[fluxquanta]

Wow, glad people are getting so worked up over my opinions.

Originally Posted by Grapist

So you have never had someone in your life commit suicide.

I have known people who have. Not necessarily people who were close to me, but then again, most people who are close to me feel the same way I do about it.

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Really, all this does is demonstrate that you don't understand suicide.

What is there to understand, really?

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Many times people kill themselves because it is the solution.

How? There is always an alternative. Always.

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Those people kill themselves by accident; its not really in their interests to pull the trigger.

So there are two types of suicide, then? People who know they want to kill themselves and do, and people who only think they want to kill themselves, but really don't want to, and manage to do it anyway? Ok then.

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Genuine depression isn't synonymous with whining about the state of one's life; it's a chemical sickness of the brain that makes living itself painful and unbearable.

I expect a lot of "well obviously you don't understand" comments, but truth be told my whole family is a cesspool of diagnosed depression and mental disorders. That doesn't mean I'm about to agree with suicide should someone in my family choose to take that route.

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Also, it's kind of messed up that you describe killing one's self as "quick and easy".

I'm not talking about the act of killing oneself, I'm talking about the thought process that goes into "I can't bring myself to actually do anything constructive to help ease my situation, but there is a route that involves minimal effort but eases all pain."

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

I never get if you're really so emotionless or you're just acting.

I'm not "just acting".

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

Have you ever been seriously depressed or dealt with someone who was really, utterly and completely destroyed by something in their life?

Yes, see above with my family situation.

Originally Posted by Junkenstein

I think that anyone that says that depression or suicide are cowardly/spineless/easy/pussy stuff is either an asshole (or pretending to be one) or is so well adjusted and ina pretty cozy life that they think everything can be solved easily.

I guess I'll pick the asshole route. Sorry for having an opinion that's not the same as yours.

[Junkenstein]

I'm not against you having an opinion, but you probably developed a colder attitude towards the issue, due to your own problems and that doesnt make you more understanding, just more thick skinned.

[Cretaceous Bob]

Originally Posted by fluxquanta

How? There is always an alternative. Always.

Kind of what I'm talking about dude. Here's a scenario: your life is fine, you just find every single thing you think repugnant. You hate being you. Alternative?

Originally Posted by fluxquanta

So there are two types of suicide, then? People who know they want to kill themselves and do, and people who only think they want to kill themselves, but really don't want to, and manage to do it anyway? Ok then.

Yes, I see a difference between the guy who puts a shotgun in his mouth and blows his head off in the first try and the teenager who slits her wrists 4 times and dies the last time. Those are two completely different people.

Originally Posted by fluxquanta

I expect a lot of "well obviously you don't understand" comments, but truth be told my whole family is a cesspool of diagnosed depression and mental disorders. That doesn't mean I'm about to agree with suicide should someone in my family choose to take that route.

But nobody in your family has, which means you can't use them as a barometer for people who commit suicide.

Originally Posted by fluxquanta

I'm not talking about the act of killing oneself, I'm talking about the thought process that goes into "I can't bring myself to actually do anything constructive to help ease my situation, but there is a route that involves minimal effort but eases all pain."

I know what you said. Describing suicide as lazy and easy is pretty messed up.

What "situation" do you imagine these people are in?

[fluxquanta]

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

You hate being you. Alternative?

Work on accepting who you are. That's what things like support groups, counseling, and (in some cases) medications are for. But there is no instant gratification in that. Hence my original comment about cowardliness.

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

Yes, I see a difference between the guy who puts a shotgun in his mouth and blows his head off in the first try and the teenager who slits her wrists 4 times and dies the last time. Those are two completely different people.

So the teenager would really mean it if only she could get her hands on a shotgun?

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

But nobody in your family has, which means you can't use them as a barometer for people who commit suicide.

But I can use them as a barometer for mental illness, and that's behind every suicide.

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

I know what you said. Describing suicide as lazy and easy is pretty messed up.

See my first response in this post.

Originally Posted by Cretaceous Bob

What "situation" do you imagine these people are in?

The same situation as everyone else who has problems -- probably the same problems thousands of others have, only only their thought process is irrational.